No whistle
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Hi,
Welcome to the forum. We would be happy to help out as much as we can but more information would be helpful.
What is the configuration of your car?
There are a lot of reasons why you might hear or not hear a whistle but until we know more about your car its difficult to be of much assistance.
Welcome to the forum. We would be happy to help out as much as we can but more information would be helpful.
What is the configuration of your car?
There are a lot of reasons why you might hear or not hear a whistle but until we know more about your car its difficult to be of much assistance.
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24 Posts
Thanks for the quick response guys. Canuknut, I have a new intercooler with charge tubes from Dejon. I do also have the GMPP tune; I will check the connections, although I am pretty sure they are soldered. I don't know what reset is. Is it a flash?
My car is an Automatic. Each time my car needs maintenance or new parts I always try to upgrade. I have not done a lot of mods, only the dejon parts and GMPP tune. I dont know if the whistle and loss of boost are related, but I know that before this happened on start up the car would idle for a few seconds between 1500 and 2000 then whistle and the RPM's would go down. I averaged around 18 to 21 psi boost normal. Now the most I might see is 8 psi. Everything else seems to be running normally. I also bought a new PCV valve just because I thought I would start cheap, but for the life of me I can't find where it is to change it:brentil:. If you could point me in the right direction with the location of the PCV valve that would be great too.
My car is an Automatic. Each time my car needs maintenance or new parts I always try to upgrade. I have not done a lot of mods, only the dejon parts and GMPP tune. I dont know if the whistle and loss of boost are related, but I know that before this happened on start up the car would idle for a few seconds between 1500 and 2000 then whistle and the RPM's would go down. I averaged around 18 to 21 psi boost normal. Now the most I might see is 8 psi. Everything else seems to be running normally. I also bought a new PCV valve just because I thought I would start cheap, but for the life of me I can't find where it is to change it:brentil:. If you could point me in the right direction with the location of the PCV valve that would be great too.
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There is no such thing as "Starting Cheap" on these cars. The PCV is internal, you will have to remove the intake manifold as the PCV valve is on the engine side of the mounting flange of the intake manifold. And that is very unlikely to have failed. And even if it had, it would not cause a loss of boost. So I would suggest you not go there.
Have you had the code history read yet? Even if there is no CEL on the dash, there can be incident codes stored in the ECM history. My bet is you will find P0101 stored.
Your most likely failure point is a loose clamp on the pipes that is allowing a boost leak. Eventually the problem will get bad enough to throw a CEL on the dash. The most likely clamp to fail is the one on the Throttle Body. If you are still running the OEM clamp at that location: It is a POS and should be replaced with a good quality T-Clamp. But check all clamps to confirm they are tight and you have no leaks. It is recommended that you replace all OEM band clamps with T-Clamps.
Have you had the code history read yet? Even if there is no CEL on the dash, there can be incident codes stored in the ECM history. My bet is you will find P0101 stored.
Your most likely failure point is a loose clamp on the pipes that is allowing a boost leak. Eventually the problem will get bad enough to throw a CEL on the dash. The most likely clamp to fail is the one on the Throttle Body. If you are still running the OEM clamp at that location: It is a POS and should be replaced with a good quality T-Clamp. But check all clamps to confirm they are tight and you have no leaks. It is recommended that you replace all OEM band clamps with T-Clamps.
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24 Posts
Thanks GS,
I will have the codes checked ASAP and let you know what I find. There is no CEL on the dash at this point. I will also return the PCV unless there is someone looking for one that you know of. I had to order it, no one has them in stock.
I will have the codes checked ASAP and let you know what I find. There is no CEL on the dash at this point. I will also return the PCV unless there is someone looking for one that you know of. I had to order it, no one has them in stock.
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1,639 Posts
Typically, if you have an air leak in the charge system; I would think it would show as too lean at idle, because the system would be sucking in unmetered air during idle. And then inversely, you would have to rich while under throttle because it would be blowing air out of the leak, thereby losing metered air.
I know a bad EVAP solenoid will throw a too rich at idle code, but typically you would also see an EVAP emissions code as well.
I have been suspicious that whatever is going on has been sensed by the ECM and it has thrown the car into "Limp Mode Lite": Thereby disabling electronic boost command. But when I have observed this behavior; typically max boost has only been about 4-5 PSI at my altitude (5000 feet above sea level). "Limp Mode Lite" disables electronic boost command, which leaves with mechanical boost command only (the first 4-5 PSI at my altitude, which is probably 3-4 at sea level). But every car tends to be different, so maybe yours just pulls more up to the mechanical boost command limit. No matter what, if this was the case I would have assumed you would pull more codes when read, than just the too rich at idle code.
But since you have commented that you are not hearing the howl/whistle on cold start, that strongly suggests a leak in the air charge system somewhere. And it is sucking in unmetered air at the leak point, resulting in less vacuum drawn at the air intake, thus no howl/whistle on cold start. It could be that the ECM is struggling with the discrepancy between MAF and MAP readings, and has been running the car pig rich to be safe (part of "Limp Mode Lite" engine protection protocol), but in that case there should be more codes. Maybe it is such a minor air leak, that the ECM has been gradually adjusting A/F to compensate and it has just reached the point where it knows it is now running to rich at idle.
I can tell you when I developed a split in the end tank of the the OEM IC that it exchanged the normal howl/whistle at cold start for a very pronounced loud whistle emanating from lower in the front of the car. When I stood in front of the car during cold start, it was pretty obvious there was a leak in the IC. But when I had a leaky throttle body hose clamp (the OEM hose clamp is a POS, replace it with a T-clamp): I never did hear the air leak until it got bad enough to blow the hose off the Throttle Body. :lol: No mistaking that sound, pretty much sounds like a gun shot. And I can not remember if the normal cold start howl/whistle sound was less during the period I had the leaky TB clamp. But it may have been.
I know a bad EVAP solenoid will throw a too rich at idle code, but typically you would also see an EVAP emissions code as well.
I have been suspicious that whatever is going on has been sensed by the ECM and it has thrown the car into "Limp Mode Lite": Thereby disabling electronic boost command. But when I have observed this behavior; typically max boost has only been about 4-5 PSI at my altitude (5000 feet above sea level). "Limp Mode Lite" disables electronic boost command, which leaves with mechanical boost command only (the first 4-5 PSI at my altitude, which is probably 3-4 at sea level). But every car tends to be different, so maybe yours just pulls more up to the mechanical boost command limit. No matter what, if this was the case I would have assumed you would pull more codes when read, than just the too rich at idle code.
But since you have commented that you are not hearing the howl/whistle on cold start, that strongly suggests a leak in the air charge system somewhere. And it is sucking in unmetered air at the leak point, resulting in less vacuum drawn at the air intake, thus no howl/whistle on cold start. It could be that the ECM is struggling with the discrepancy between MAF and MAP readings, and has been running the car pig rich to be safe (part of "Limp Mode Lite" engine protection protocol), but in that case there should be more codes. Maybe it is such a minor air leak, that the ECM has been gradually adjusting A/F to compensate and it has just reached the point where it knows it is now running to rich at idle.
I can tell you when I developed a split in the end tank of the the OEM IC that it exchanged the normal howl/whistle at cold start for a very pronounced loud whistle emanating from lower in the front of the car. When I stood in front of the car during cold start, it was pretty obvious there was a leak in the IC. But when I had a leaky throttle body hose clamp (the OEM hose clamp is a POS, replace it with a T-clamp): I never did hear the air leak until it got bad enough to blow the hose off the Throttle Body. :lol: No mistaking that sound, pretty much sounds like a gun shot. And I can not remember if the normal cold start howl/whistle sound was less during the period I had the leaky TB clamp. But it may have been.
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24 Posts
What you are describing makes sense to me. I will go through all the clamps this weekend. I will probably order T-clamps to replace all the OEM clamps also (great recomendation). I will let you know how it runs when I am finished.
on another note, I don't know if this might be related also, but I found what looks like a leak in front of the turbo. you can see in the picture below (never mind all the dirt). what caused this and how can I fix it? I do remember what you said GS
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on another note, I don't know if this might be related also, but I found what looks like a leak in front of the turbo. you can see in the picture below (never mind all the dirt). what caused this and how can I fix it? I do remember what you said GS
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Oh man, you have oil going through the turbo. So this can be anything from just a malfunctioning check valve on the braided steel line that connects to the intake before the turbo, to a failed PCV valve which sits underneath the intake manifold and feeds the line to the turbo junction, or worst case-failing oil seals in your turbo and it is about to fail.
Start with the check valve on the braided steel line that connects to the intake pipe before the turbo. (clicks onto the plastic nipple on the intake tube) You need a fuel line tool to unhook the braided steel line from the valve cover. Odds are the plastic check valve is goed up and stuck open, letting oil from the valve cover into the intake pipe which in turn gets sucking into the turbo and comes out the other side.
The braided steel line lets fresh air into the head of the engine, which in turn circulates through the engine and out the PCV to the turbo connection. If the check valve is stuck open, then that is the source of your issue. You can probably just spray it out with carb cleaner or MAF cleaner and it will start working again. I keep a couple spares around, because I have had this part fail. If this is what has happened you will want to take the charge pipes apart and clean them out, because there will be oil film all over everything and maybe oil in the IC. If you are still running the OEM IC, you can unhook the collector hose on the bottom and see if any oil comes out. If so, probably a really good idea to take the IC out and have it cleaned out.
If you find that the check valve in the braided steel line is working and you have not evidence of oil where it connects to the intake pipe, then the next possible failure is the PCV valve. But that sucker sits underneath the intake manifold, so it is a pain in the butt to replace. Fortunately, we have not seen that part fail very often on these cars. Do a search on the forum, you should be able to find where someone has posted how to change that part.
The worst case scenario - Turbo Oil Seals Failing is a whole other can of worms. So hopefully it is not that.
Start with the check valve on the braided steel line that connects to the intake pipe before the turbo. (clicks onto the plastic nipple on the intake tube) You need a fuel line tool to unhook the braided steel line from the valve cover. Odds are the plastic check valve is goed up and stuck open, letting oil from the valve cover into the intake pipe which in turn gets sucking into the turbo and comes out the other side.
The braided steel line lets fresh air into the head of the engine, which in turn circulates through the engine and out the PCV to the turbo connection. If the check valve is stuck open, then that is the source of your issue. You can probably just spray it out with carb cleaner or MAF cleaner and it will start working again. I keep a couple spares around, because I have had this part fail. If this is what has happened you will want to take the charge pipes apart and clean them out, because there will be oil film all over everything and maybe oil in the IC. If you are still running the OEM IC, you can unhook the collector hose on the bottom and see if any oil comes out. If so, probably a really good idea to take the IC out and have it cleaned out.
If you find that the check valve in the braided steel line is working and you have not evidence of oil where it connects to the intake pipe, then the next possible failure is the PCV valve. But that sucker sits underneath the intake manifold, so it is a pain in the butt to replace. Fortunately, we have not seen that part fail very often on these cars. Do a search on the forum, you should be able to find where someone has posted how to change that part.
The worst case scenario - Turbo Oil Seals Failing is a whole other can of worms. So hopefully it is not that.
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Well I found the source of the air leak. It was an OEM clamp on the IC discharge side. I will be getting those T-clamps soon. The car is running much better now.
Do I need to replace the whole hose or does the check valve come out? Thanks again for your support.
Do I need to replace the whole hose or does the check valve come out? Thanks again for your support.
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1,639 Posts
Check valve is part of the braided steel line and sold as one unit. You most likely can just spray it out with MAF cleaner and get it working again. Should be pretty obvious if it is gummed up and not working. But still a good idea to order a spare and keep it around.
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Yeah just clean it, It'll be fine. I used alcohol, but that or MAF cleaner will work.
See: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...at-please-help-74566/index10.html#post1118311
See: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...at-please-help-74566/index10.html#post1118311
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24 Posts
Ok, check valve cleaned and all clamps checked and tightened. Now It whistles on start-up and wants to run with full boost, which is awesome, but when I get to about 15 psi it starts to sputter or cut out??? Any ideas?
I want to get this thing running like normal before it is actually summer!
I want to get this thing running like normal before it is actually summer!
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1,639 Posts
That could be caused by a number of different things. You are now into territory where data logging would be a good suggestion. At the very least have the code history read and see if that leads you anywhere.
"Sputtering" could be misfires (spark plug issue, or A/F ratio issue).
Another possibility: The ECM has been struggling to keep everything in balance with the air leak in the charge system. So it may just need to relearn the air charge system without the leak. You could try disconnecting the negative battery cable for 30 minutes or so. Then hook it back up and go driving. It will take several key cycles for it to re-learn everything. But may fix your problem.
Did you replace the OEM throttle boy clamp with a good quality T-Clamp? This is very important. Because if you just tightened up the OEM clamp, odds are it is still leaking. And it could be leaking at high boost, thereby causing your "sputter". I can not stress enough how bad the OEM throttle body clamp is. The hose can actually slip down on the back side of the throttle body to the point where it will "burp" air at high boost; but appear good when you look at it. So look carefully and make sure the hose is pushed all the way up on that throttle body inlet. And replace that POS clamp.
"Sputtering" could be misfires (spark plug issue, or A/F ratio issue).
Another possibility: The ECM has been struggling to keep everything in balance with the air leak in the charge system. So it may just need to relearn the air charge system without the leak. You could try disconnecting the negative battery cable for 30 minutes or so. Then hook it back up and go driving. It will take several key cycles for it to re-learn everything. But may fix your problem.
Did you replace the OEM throttle boy clamp with a good quality T-Clamp? This is very important. Because if you just tightened up the OEM clamp, odds are it is still leaking. And it could be leaking at high boost, thereby causing your "sputter". I can not stress enough how bad the OEM throttle body clamp is. The hose can actually slip down on the back side of the throttle body to the point where it will "burp" air at high boost; but appear good when you look at it. So look carefully and make sure the hose is pushed all the way up on that throttle body inlet. And replace that POS clamp.
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1,639 Posts
No, Driver's side, where the charge pipe connects to the bent rubber (elbow) hose. Then the other end of the bent rubber hose connects to the Throttle Body on the intake manifold. Be sure the hose is pushed all the way up on the Throttle Body Inlet and replace the OEM clamp with a good quality T-Clamp. You can tighten the OEM clamp until the cows come home, and all you will do is strip out the band clamp anyway. To replace that clamp, you have to take the bent rubber hose completely off; because the stupid OEM clamp is attached to the hose with little piece of molded/glued rubber. You have to cut that off, to get the OEM clamp off. Smooth everything out good and replace with the T-clamp style.
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24 Posts
That clears it up! The sputtering sound that I am hearing is coming from what sounds like the drivers side, and the connection looks bad. I bought some T-clamps and went to put them on the other day and was taken back by the what seemed like molded in band clamps. I will take off the elbow and clean it up and put the T-clamps on the first chance I get.
Thanks to all who have responded. You have been a great deal of help.
Thanks to all who have responded. You have been a great deal of help.
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