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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got off the phone with OTTP (Over The Top Performance)

The have been working with Ecotec engines for a while but they focused on Cobalt components. They don't have anything specific to the Solstice so they don't list on their website anything about the Solstice but there are a bunch of engine parts that are interchangeable between the turbo'd Cobalt and the GXP.

So I spoke with them because I am gearing up to do the timing chain replacement and deleting the balance shafts and it's chain. In order to do that I have to convert the water pump to electric. I learned that on Memorial day this year they are releasing a bolt in Davies Craig electric water pump conversion that will work on the LE5 and also the LNF. It bolts into the factory location so no plumbing changes need to be made. You would have to remove the balance shafts and the chain in order to put this in or you would need to have a shorter chain made.

I told the guy on the phone (which I believe is the owner) That he needs to update his website to list parts that will work on the Solstice. I explained to him the community around these vehicles and if his website came up when someone did a search for Solstice performance parts he would get some business from it.

I brought up the rash of timing chain guide failures that have been taking place on vehicles that have 30,000 miles or 120,000 miles and that the failures are because of age alone. He said that they have been seeing the same thing occurring with the Cobalt as well. They have had people asking about doing the electric pump conversion and there was enough interest in the Cobalt community that they developed one a year ago and have been testing it and come Memorial day it will be for sale.

I spoke with him about working on the Solstices and if they had any experience with them and he said they have worked on a few but have not had a lot of exposure to them. He said that he has one coming in next week to have a custom shifter made for it. I informed him of the "garage queen" treatment a lot of these vehicles get and that a good portion of them have low mileage for the age. I also told him the typical age range of the people that buys the car and said it's not kids that buy these cars typically it's the 45+ crowd. So it's not people hoping to buy or needing to save to buy, it's people that have money to spend!!!

He seems interested in developing upgraded components for the vehicle and I am sure if he had more access to the vehicles with people wanting to get work done to them we would see more parts available from them. They are located in Michigan so people up in that neck of the woods you now know of a place to bring your vehicle to if you need to have work done, they will work on them. They are wiling to fabricate custom parts as well and I think that if there is interest from the community and someone in that area is willing to give them the use of a vehicle to develop the parts I believe we would see Solstice/Sky specific parts become available from them.

I wanted to throw that out there.

So if you are interested in the water pump conversion get together and see if they will do a group buy at a discount. With timing chain guides going bad doing an upgrade at the same time as the chain that will get 10-15 more ponies to the ground is not a bad idea. For the racers couple the pump change with valves and springs and you will really increase the max RPM of the engine. Getting over 6800 RPMs you need stronger valve springs. Getting over 7500 you need to delete the balance shafts and deleting the water pump and chain associated with it will push the RPM limit higher. The new pump is going to move more coolant and keep the engine temps lower, lower engine temps means less knock retard and more usable power being created by the engine and also better life from the engine.
 

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Very interested in the electric water pump for my drag Solstice build. Have already reviewed some DIY versions. Regarding the balance shafts, can't we just remove the chain and leave them there instead of having to do more work related to the oil system if they are taken out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
NO you MUST remove the balance shafts. If the tensioner for the balance shaft chain gets oil pressure it will blow apart if the chain is not there. In order to block off that oil galley plugs need to be inserted where the balance shafts are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you want to keep the balance shafts and just eliminate the pump I am sure that can be done by using a custom timing chain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am waiting for a couple of prices for a few things but they sell a timing chain kit that includes the VVT solenoids, crank gear, cam timing chain, both cam phasers, 3 guides and tensioner for a little over 300. I am going to see if they will swap out the tensioner for the upgraded one and I pay the difference. They also have the 3 ARP bolts for the guides for 30.00. The plugs to delete the balance shaft chain cost 90.00. I plan on modifying a stock pump by taking the gear, shaft and impeller out and welding the shaft hole closed. I am going to be getting a DavisCraig pump with the variable speed controller for it and putting it inline on the lower radiator hose. I will be replacing the radiator and when I do I will be flip flopping the sides of the radiator the upper and lower hoses connect one. So the upper hose will shorten up and the lower will get longer. This is because the inlet is on the side of the pump and the output is 90 degrees change from the input. Since the lower hose runs in a straight (ish) line to the firewall from the radiator I would not be able to get the pump in an orientation that would work without having to buy a 60 dollar AN fitting. Since I plan on replacing the radiator with a dual core one I will be able to have the nipples in different locations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes they do. neutral balance shafts. But it still takes power from the engine to spin them and they are also expensive at I believe something like 500.00

The balance shafts turn at twice the rotational speed of the engine. So the shafts spin at 14000 RPMs is the engine is at 7000 RPM. It's just another failure point that doesn't need to be there. The only purpose to the balance shafts is to smooth out vibrations at low RPMs but they cause excessive vibrations at high RPM which is not really where you want them to exist at.
 

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That F35 short shifter is SHARP.

I would absolutely buy one for Sky if they developed one.

The tow hooks are very nice too.

Tons of Cobalt stuff.

I'd be willing to be a test mule, but alas I am in Minnesota.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I would absolutely buy one for Sky if they developed one.

I know they are putting a shifter in the Solstice next week. Once they do that I am sure you will be able to get them to make the shifter you want. You should give them a call and ask them about it. Tell them there was a guy on the forum that said to give them a call.
 

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I was wondering how far this place was from me so I Goggle the directions listed on their FB page, and see that they are 115 miles East from me (very close to the Canadian border). 6065 Arnold Rd, Marine City, MI 48039. But the Google view function shows rural dirts roads and it appears to be a home address?

Plant Sky Tree Natural landscape Land lot


Sky Plant Natural landscape Tree Land lot
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can tell you that when I called there was a lot of "shop" noise in the background and there was a lot of echo in the background, like it was a large building.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This is the address on the website
6065 Arnold Rd
Cottrellville, MI. 48039
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh and the image on street view is from 2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
PAW doesn't have the front plugs to delete the sprockets. They have the back ones so the shafts can be milled to turn them into idlers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I wanted to post my experience with this company.

I wish I didn't buy from them, that is the quick and dirty.

Here is the things that transpired.

When I had made this post I had contacted the company and asked about several things I needed. I wanted to check if they were in stock and I also asked some questions about some of the parts. I had asked bout a timing chain kit that is listed on their website and specifically who the parts are made by, I was told GM.

On 5/24/22 I ordered $574.92 worth of components from them. Here is a list of the parts I ordered.

Balance Shaft Delete Bushings
Balance Shaft Delete Front Plugs
Ecotec Front Cover Gasket
LNF Valve Cover Gasket
ARP Ecotec Upgraded Timing Guide Bolts
Ecotec Timing Chain & Guide Set
Ecotec Upgraded Timing Chain Tensioner

I paid 51.67 for USPS 2 business day shipping and that brought the total to 626.59


On 5/26/22 I receive an e-mail stating the order has shipped. I looked at the tracking number and it is a UPS tracking number not a USPS tracking number. I then tracked the package and it is for UPS Ground not 2 day shipping like I had paid for. The tracking for that number also stated that only the label had been created and the item had not shipped yet. I sent a message to the company asking why the tracking number was a UPS tracking number and not a USPS number. Their response was that USPS would not pick the package up until the following week... I found that rather odd because it's the US Post Service they pickup Monday thru Saturday and this was a Thursday it should have shipped on. Nothing I could really do about it.

Before I sent the message asking about the shipping being changed it dawned on me that UPS ground is cheaper then USPS 2 day. I checked and sure enough it was about 20 bucks cheaper. I asked about a refund for the difference in the shipping when I asked about the shipping method. So now the company changed my shipping method without asking me if it was OK to do, they never even informed me that they did it and they didn't refund me the difference in the cost of the shipping. I sent another message asking about a refund of the cost difference in the shipping.

There was no mention of a refund being made for the difference in shipping so I sent another message asking for a refund of the shipping. I did not hear back until Tuesday of the following week (05/31/22) and I was told the refund had already been done. Yet I had not received it and nothing showed as pending on my credit card.

I did receive my order late in the day on Wednesday 6/1/22. I unboxed the parts to discover the parts were not GM components. There was a piece of paper in the box that described the marks on the timing chain being different then the ones on the GM chain and on the bottom right corner in small print it said "Copyright Cloyes Gear & Product". The valve cover gasket was not GM either. The front cover gasket was a GM part.

I sent a message explaining to them what had happened and that I was sent the wrong parts. I told them I would need a return shipping label sent to me so I could send the parts back to them so the correct ones could be shipped. I said if they did not have the parts then they could refund the money I had spent.

They responded on 6/2/22 and said that the kit I received is correct and that it is a kit that they make and if I wanted to return the parts I would have to pay the shipping and a 25% restocking fee.

On their website they have a kit that they sell that is labeled as a Cloyes kit. it states it right in the title of the kit. The kit I ordered stated Ecotec Timing chain kit and when I called previously I was told it was GM components. The kit I purchased from them was close to the same dollar amount that it would have been had I bought the individual components form a GM parts supplier. The Cloyes kit has a retail price of 260.00 not close to 400.00 which is what I paid.

I had just finished up going a timing chain on my Lincoln MKS and I used a Cloyes kit on that vehicle and I had not disposed of the old timing components which I had put into the Cloyes packaging. So I compared the packaging and low and behold things like the seams on the bags for the parts were identical. Pretty much all aspects of the packaging was the same.

I sent an e-mail back to them stating that it is illegal to "rebrand" a product without permission form the company that manufacturers the product. I know that Cloyes does not allow this as they do make OEM components and if you get a part made by them from a dealership it has a Cloyes sticker on it along with the car manufacturers sticker. I then brought up the piece of paper that was missed and I also brought up the fact that they removed the parts from the Cloyes box and al the paperwork was also missing except for that one piece of paper that was wrapped up in the packaging for one of the parts (why it was missed). I also pointed out that in their last message they stated that it is a kit that they make and that it is not a Cloyes kit when I know for a fact that it is. I then demanded a shipping label and a full refund.

That was the last I was in contact with them. They banned my personal computer IP address from accessing their website and they deleted my account from their system. Dummies think that banning my IP from accessing their website is going to stop me from accessing it. That is how I found out that my account had been deleted. They will not respond to my e-mails and they will not answer the phone when I call.

Cloyes has been informed of the situation, they take this kind of thing very seriously because of the large sums of money Cloyes has to give GM in order to have the rights to manufacture and sell replacement parts. It also ends up causing a problem because of warranty and should any problems arise from it. I have zero warranty on those parts because I do not have the original box and because no where on my invoice is the mention of Cloyes. So even if I wanted to use the parts I cannot because if there is a failure for some reason I am screwed.

I did receive only a partial refund of the shipping costs and not the entire amount. I received it on 5/31/22 after I had requested it for the 3rd time. The bank told me that the instant they issues the refund it hot my account and there was no processing period. So they never sent the refund prior to me asking the 3rd time.

I opened an investigation with my bank about this.The change of the shipping and the full difference not being refunded constitutes wire fraud. The rest of the part not being what I had purchased and not being given a refund or the ability to ship them back has been passed onto VISA to have the charges reversed. Cloyes has been contacted and given all of the information I have. Copies of all the communications and the invoice, I am sure they are going to get a cease and desist letter and could end up in a legal issue over it. The wire fraud portion my bank states they will push to the limits the law will allow. IDK what that means or how far it will go but I am sure that once their bank is contacted about it they are going to raise some questions and maybe even audit their records. Who knows.

IDK if it was me that owned the company and I was doing something that was less then legal and a customer caught me out and asked for a refund I would give them the refund and would have told them to keep the parts just to make them go away. I gave them an out in the first message saying the parts were sent on accident. they could have refunded my money and had me ship the parts back to them.

I don't get why they did what they did. It just brought a **** storm down on them.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This was sent to me by a user on the forum. It is an image of the cloyes kit.

Font Wood Eyewear Shipping box Office equipment



This is what I was sent. I arranged the parts in the same way as seen in the photograph above.

Packing materials Wood Rectangle Shipping box Natural material



And they told me it is not a Cloyes kit and that it is one that they make.

CRAZY! They must have the same machines that package the parts and they buy the boxes from the same manufacturer and they even have the exact same label printer. How nuts is that??
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Why would anyone spend almost 400 bucks and 50 dollars to ship it on something that can be bought from numerous other places for 260.00 with free shipping??
 

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in the case of fraud , or just stupidity on my part, my credit card company has always protected me; and although i have other means of purchase it is has become my go-to card whenever possible.

Bill
 
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