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I understand your frustration and believe transparency is the key to a successful business in the long run. Seems these guys did not observe transparency as a principle. Maybe the person that informed you it's a GM kit was misinformed and might be innocent, but the fact they stripped a Cloyes kit of 99% of the Cloyes branding (pesky timing marks paper they forgot to remove, it was the tell-tale) and sold it as a more expensive kit put together by themselves is really shady.

From recent posts around the forum it seems to me the performance parts vendor market is rather murky waters, and many of them capitalise on misinformation, selling things at a premium and advertising them as better or uprated when all they are doing is stocking a standard part and reselling. Nothing wrong in adding a healthy markup to an item you resell, what breaks into dishonest territory in my opinion is when you advertise the thing as better when in fact it is the very same thing, and this advertising misleads honest customers in accepting your more expensive price believing they will get an uprated product.
 

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Sorry you had this experience.
Lots of smaller businesses were badly hit by the government forcing them to close their doors to the public or locking people up so they lacked the funds to purchase from these small vendors. Some are trying to make up some of that lost $$$ by taking advantage of their customers. This sounds like one of those cases. The fact that they cancelled you on their site and refuse to communicate is a red flag.

But you know there are plenty of places to go to hammer them with this bad informaiton. Just do a search on their name and go to each site in turn and clearly state the facts without opinion and it will kill their business.
 

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One certainly hopes the resolution to this problem was not them having their business killed, rather learning that observing honesty in their dealings is the most profitable way in the long run.
Obviously I have no impact on the outcome but have seen cases where bad reviews do have an impact
 

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06 solstice sliver.wicked coupe,dirtbike,4wheeler
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the gm replacement parts I received in gm baggies from gm dealer, were infact Cloyes parts. personally i would rather have cloyes parts than gm parts. but since gm gets them from Cloyes for this engine Im ok with it. so other than higher price with many retailers do like this I think your good to go with the parts.
 

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06 solstice sliver.wicked coupe,dirtbike,4wheeler
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just curious, just what instructions for the chain did it come with,might be helpful to post it just encase somebody needs it. Ie'v seen a few different chains,it would be nice to have all the info avalible for them all. some have the 2 gold links at each timing location and the black one between them is the diamond one( "timing mark go's hear" ), some just have a single black link per each timing mark. I've seen one with 2 gold at each of the balance shaft marks and a single black link at the crank. how hard is it to make the chains like the oe application was?? apparently dam hard.of coarse I dont know if gm changed them or not so that may be the reason for some this way and some that way. big 572 CI & up motors were oh so eazy on everything. dang modern stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
my bank I am sure will handle it. It just amazes me that even when they knew they got caught doing it and they were given a way out they made the choice not to and still continue to lie and when confronted about it they banned my and deleted my account.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
The GM parts I just got because I ordered them again were NOT Cloyes components. they are LUK components
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
There is something with the crank sprocket. ZZP reports hey have had issues with them. I think their chain is longer then the OE chain to make it easier to install and that makes me wonder about how far the tensioner is extended once the chain stretches. I drive with the engine RPM's up high and the tighter the chain the better.

There are lots of aftermarket parts that are better then the OE part but I believe that te OE timing products are the best that's made so that is what I stuck with.
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
yes it was
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
It was a real ball buster getting that chain on by myself. It's a good thing I have long arms because I needed to get the chain on from the top. Had to hold it in place on the crank and hold the exhaust VVT phaser in the other hand and get it aligned with the mark on the chain and also check to make sure the intake phaser mark was lined up and then pull on the exhaust phaser to tighten the chain and get it slipped into the cam. This is the cool trick, I had to take my hand off the crank sprocket and like playing twister I had to grab the 22mm wrench and get it onto the cam and rotate the cam until the phaser dropped all the way into place. Can't let go of the phaser at all because it would rotate and the chain would go slack enough that it could change position on the crank sprocket.

fun times.
 
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06 solstice sliver.wicked coupe,dirtbike,4wheeler
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weeee what fun!!! Im going to have to use smoke&mirriors to do mine with my eyes not worken so great any more. as for holding/keeping the chain on the lower sprocket untill all the adjusters&guides were in place.,I was thinken about a tie rap to hold it.
LUK is used a lot in the ac vw stuff...and they do put thier label on china boxes..I dont know how much of luk is china made but some is nowdays. I've used Cloyes for 45+ years, on something that counts I use cloyes,manley or melling.(manley performance not the oe manley line.) never had any issue at all with cloyes or manley building & machining performance/racing engines for a living. with that said...this modern :poop: is kinda almost outa my ball park. :eek: ,almost like totally new forein to me, but in the end it's all the same, ( like my spelling)just a few different techneeks.
 

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Previously owned a 2007 Solstice. Base model, manual trans, limited slip, black on black.
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I've lost track of how many times people have taken advantage of my good nature....if it's not in writing it's most likely not true. Don't beat yourself up over it cus next week someone else will be in your pocket. But, I'm impressed with your tenacity!!
 

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Your not alone in that club Lou. those kind of people are the reason why I stopped doing work for others after I retired.
 

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I think each business that behaves bad once should be killed. No mistakes should be made, no time to learn from your mistakes. Shut them down. Lets cancel those bad guys !
While I can understand your "no tolerance" policy, many times employees who are none the wiser and innocent get punished together with the business when a company folds. I am also a business owner and while we strictly observe honesty as a paramount value in our way of doing things, and it is many times hard to compete with the dishonest guys around you, every time a business goes under several lives are negatively affected. Employees. Creditors. The community the business operated out of. etc. etc. etc. So if they can learn from their mistakes it is a win-win.
 

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While I can understand your "no tolerance" policy, many times employees who are none the wiser and innocent get punished together with the business when a company folds. I am also a business owner and while we strictly observe honesty as a paramount value in our way of doing things, and it is many times hard to compete with the dishonest guys around you, every time a business goes under several lives are negatively affected. Employees. Creditors. The community the business operated out of. etc. etc. etc. So if they can learn from their mistakes it is a win-win.
I am pretty sure this was intended as sarcasm.
That being said, relabeling other companies products and reselling as something else is a big no no. This is a core integrity issue and if they are willing to cheat there, exactly where is their “line”?
In this case, I happened to have ordered a Cloyes Kit for both chains from Rock Auto and it arrived at the same time that KGs kit arrived. We were able to compare photos and it became obvious the foul play at hand.
The fact that KG mentioned it to the reseller and was promptly shut down and cutoff was integrity issue #2.
At this point we are way past “they made a [email protected] and stepping into intentional nefariousness.

Now I happened to have ordered the OTTP “high performance” chain tensioner AND the Cloyes kit came with the Cloyes one so I had them side by side. I even opened my OEM one pulled from my engine then compared to the “improved” OTTP one.
Apparently it’s not something one can visually tell but after hearing KGs story, I am willing to bet it is a stock one “rebadged”.
Uber shiester behavior.
KG is doing his due diligence after initially posting his excitement about a possible new vendor by posting a follow up on his experience.
Suffice it to say for me personally they will not be seeing anymore of my cash.
 

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I am pretty sure this was intended as sarcasm.
Not really, maybe the language barrier didn't help here?

Overall my comment was not about OTTP themselves which have engaged in several degrees of chicanery while dealing with @kgschlosser and should be punished for it, be it by having to give him back the money or pay him damages etc.

I was more commenting about the "death to shady vendors" way of thinking that we ought, to our benefit, maybe change to the "beat them into submission" approach mentioned by @rob the elder . Lest we are left with no Kappa vendors at all...

And, I absolutely agree, repackaging something as your own brand and charging twice the price is a preposterous business practice. I remember you bought a coil set from a 3-letter-named, gigantic and famous Ecotec performance vendor that were utter $h!t Chinesium... That case was as bad as OTTP's is now, with OTTP adding insult to injury by cutting off KG and -- cherry on the cake! -- blocking his IP address, as if he wouldn't realize that...

It seems a rather repetitive practice in the performance parts world, this liberal "rebranding" and marking-up. Besides the coil pack and the timing set, the clutch kit(s) come to mind too... We are really in bad waters!
 
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