[TomatoSoup]

I asked for the part back too. they would not give it to me. I have repaired many of these ribbon type conductors in aircraft applications and believe I could do these too. There is nothing special about these in our sols where the break occurs. That particular spot is just a conductor.

Repairs have been tried, here and by a couple of European owners, without success. It is an ultra-thin circuit trace on a very thin substrate, with a relatively thick coating. I may end up with a failed sensor. If I do, are you interested in having it?

For further clarity, the conductor is actually frangible conductive paint glued and sandwiched between the two layers of mylar-like material. As soon as you try to open up the outer layers, the conductive paint trace just falls - or gets pulled - apart.

 

[TomatoSoup]

I asked for the part back too. they would not give it to me. I have repaired many of these ribbon type conductors in aircraft applications and believe I could do these too. There is nothing special about these in our sols where the break occurs. That particular spot is just a conductor.

Repairs have been tried, here and by a couple of European owners, without success. It is an ultra-thin circuit trace on a very thin substrate, with a relatively thick coating. I may end up with a failed sensor. If I do, are you interested in having it?

For further clarity, the conductor is actually frangible conductive paint glued and sandwiched between the two layers of mylar-like material. As soon as you try to open up the outer layers, the conductive paint trace just falls - or gets pulled - apart.

View attachment 106930

 

[joybill44]

For further clarity, the conductor is actually frangible conductive paint glued and sandwiched between the two layers of mylar-like material. As soon as you try to open up the outer layers, the conductive paint trace just falls - or gets pulled - apart.

View attachment 106930

Soup is right. If you try to separate the mylar film, you just make things worse. I don't have pictures but I can try to describe how I have fixed similar breaks. I drilled several tiny holes through the mylar and conductive paint on both sides of the break. then threaded stranded copper wire up and down through the holes to electrically connect the break. I guess you could compare it to sewing the break back together. I then filled the drilled holes with the wire in them with flexible conductive paint. Lastly, I glued new mylar on both top and bottom of the existing mylar to hold everything together. I haven't tried our seat bottom but this has worked for me on similar breaks.

 

[TomatoSoup]

Soup is right. If you try to separate the mylar film, you just make things worse. I don't have pictures but I can try to describe how I have fixed similar breaks. I drilled several tiny holes through the mylar and conductive paint on both sides of the break. then threaded stranded copper wire up and down through the holes to electrically connect the break. I guess you could compare it to sewing the break back together. I then filled the drilled holes with the wire in them with flexible conductive paint. Lastly, I glued new mylar on both top and bottom of the existing mylar to hold everything together. I haven't tried our seat bottom but this has worked for me on similar breaks.

Yep that might well work. There'd have to be a certain amount of luck involved to make the connection with the track, of course

Unfortunately I cut my bad mat up to send pieces to chickenwire to look at what plastic is was, so I cannot test the idea myself. But I'm prepared to believe!

 

[JohnWR]

Soup is right. If you try to separate the mylar film, you just make things worse. I don't have pictures but I can try to describe how I have fixed similar breaks. I drilled several tiny holes through the mylar and conductive paint on both sides of the break. then threaded stranded copper wire up and down through the holes to electrically connect the break. I guess you could compare it to sewing the break back together. I then filled the drilled holes with the wire in them with flexible conductive paint. Lastly, I glued new mylar on both top and bottom of the existing mylar to hold everything together. I haven't tried our seat bottom but this has worked for me on similar breaks.

Yep that might well work. There'd have to be a certain amount of luck involved to make the connection with the track, of course

Unfortunately I cut my bad mat up to send pieces to chickenwire to look at what plastic is was, so I cannot test the idea myself. But I'm prepared to believe!

The break in the circuit happens at an area that gets a lot of stress and flex, so that repair method would almost certainly fail quickly. The best chance of success, I think, would be to place the "stitching" as far away from the break as possible in each direction, and connect the two areas with lengths of stranded wire.

 

[joybill44]

The break in the circuit happens at an area that gets a lot of stress and flex, so that repair method would almost certainly fail quickly. The best chance of success, I think, would be to place the "stitching" as far away from the break as possible in each direction, and connect the two areas with lengths of stranded wire.

That is exactly what I had in mind for the seat. It has worked for me in other situations. one printer I fixed like that where the flat ribbon had to roll back and forth with the print head. worked well, still working. Of course the seat would require more reinforcing, hence the addition of flexible mylar on the top and bottom of the repaired loop in the ribbon. Drip loops, or expansion joints like that U shape in the seat work well for round conduit or tubing but are pretty much useless for a flat ribbon. It is not the conductor that fails but the flat ribbon that cannot flex in the direction it was designed for. Also, I mixed my own adhesive from flexible contact cement and silver powder used in heat sinks. I first tried the paint used to repair window defrosters but found that it wouldn't flex with the ribbon and the fix wouldn't last in areas where the ribbon had to move or was sublect to vibration.

 

[Robotech]

Some people asked this so I want to clarify,

IF you did not have a Service Air Bag message AND the passenger air bag light would still switch from off to on when someone sat in the passenger seat, the system would show as working properly and you would have received just the tape fix.

The problem is that if the mat is damaged and the 3D matrix Mylar like material had started to tear, the tape fix, it is my belief, would not stop complete failure from ultimately occurring. This damage though can not be inspected without destroying the mat assembly so this pre-existing damage on a still functioning mat cannot be verified by GM. Thus, unless you had the tell tail Service Air Bag message AND the passenger air bag light always displayed off with a 150lb+ passenger in the car, you got just the tape fix. IF your mat failed after having just the tape fix recall performed, chances are the mat had already been damaged before the tape was applied but it was still functional. These are the folks I need to file complaints with NHTSA.

 

[Kappasky]

Robo, sidebar chat, but can the mat be removed from the factory seat without damaging it, or is it gued down. My question pertains to putting in aftermarket seats. Could the mat be transferred to a new seat?

 

[JohnWR]

Robo, sidebar chat, but can the mat be removed from the factory seat without damaging it, or is it gued down. My question pertains to putting in aftermarket seats. Could the mat be transferred to a new seat?

Yes, the mat can be removed from the cushion without damaging it.

 

[TomatoSoup]

Robo, sidebar chat, but can the mat be removed from the factory seat without damaging it, or is it gued down. My question pertains to putting in aftermarket seats. Could the mat be transferred to a new seat?

The mat IS glued to the seat cushion foam. If you are careful you could probably separate it without damaging it, but it will not just lift off.

 

[Kappasky]

Thanks John and Tomato...do either of you know anyone who has successfully transferred the mat to an aftermarket seat successfully? Obviously the aftermarket seatS shape and size would be a consideration.

 

[JohnWR]

Thanks John and Tomato...do either of you know anyone who has successfully transferred the mat to an aftermarket seat successfully? Obviously the aftermarket seatS shape and size would be a consideration.

I don't know of anyone who has installed an aftermarket seat that isn't a minimalist racing bucket. Fitting a seat into the available space is a severe challenge..

Fitting the sensor mat to the new seat shouldn't be too bad but yes, its shape and size will be a factor.

 

[TomatoSoup]

Thanks John and Tomato...do either of you know anyone who has successfully transferred the mat to an aftermarket seat successfully? Obviously the aftermarket seatS shape and size would be a consideration.

There was a guy, Kenny S, who swapped his seats for buckets. Im pretty sure he swapped the mat too, but can't be certain. I believe he sold his car, so not active on the forums any more. Sorry.

So basically, this was a wasted post :lol:

 

[JohnWR]

I looked at the sensors that I have removed, and the mats have a waffle-like texture on the back that engages with a hook-like material that is glued to the cushion. The hook attaches to the mat with more strength than it is glued to the cushion, so most of the hook strips came off with the mats, especially before I got the hang of the removal process. The electronics pack is double-stick-taped into the recess on the front of the cushion.