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Link doesn't. :nono:
 

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Glad to see someone attempting to debunk the myth. Unfortunately, it will need to come from higher profile sources and repeated on a regular basis to have any impact on the thinking of brainwashed American consumers.
 

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stang said:
Here is the correct link.

http://www.tctimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14615828&BRD=2524&PAG=461&dept_id=497461&rfi=6

Note: After reading the article, I can only say that this columnist has a serious chip on his shoulder. :smash:
Well, he's probbaly a laid-off UAW that doesn't have a job in the rustbelt because the Japanese plants south of the Mason-Dixon line are all non-union (or so I've been led to believe) So the Toyota claim of creating 200,000 jobs may be correct, they may not be new jobs but just a small replacement of possibly 1,200,000 jobs lost in the Big 3 plants. (Don't get me wrong here, I'm not anti-Japanese at all because my business depends on a Japanese product with 4 wheels)
 

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stang said:
Note: After reading the article, I can only say that this columnist has a serious chip on his shoulder. :smash:
Think it's a GM town.... ;)

As for the Prius mileage, don't blame Toyota. By law they are only allowed to publish & advertise the official Federal City/Highway mileage. Toyota knows that the Fed test does not reflect the true MPG of a hybrid and the government is said to be changing the test, but until then...to quote any other figure will get them in legal trouble.
 

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stang said:
...After reading the article, I can only say that this columnist has a serious chip on his shoulder. :smash:
:agree: Dang!

Don't want to digress here too much, but...interesting remark regarding the quality of the Vibe and it's relationship to Toyota (is the Vibe assembled by Toyota?). Does anyone know if the Toyota Matrix has a worse/similar/better quality rating? Just thinking -- why would a U.S. automaker have their car assembled by a partner (competitor) who has a similar (same) vehicle competing for the same market segment? Why put a competitor in a position to sabotage your product?

I know this happens all of the time (Ford/Mazda, etc.) but it just seems strange...
 

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concreteguy said:
:agree: Dang!

Don't want to digress here too much, but...interesting remark regarding the quality of the Vibe and it's relationship to Toyota (is the Vibe assembled by Toyota?). Does anyone know if the Toyota Matrix has a worse/similar/better quality rating? Just thinking -- why would a U.S. automaker have their car assembled by a partner (competitor) who has a similar (same) vehicle competing for the same market segment? Why put a competitor in a position to sabotage your product?

I know this happens all of the time (Ford/Mazda, etc.) but it just seems strange...
Well its a joint venture plant where the Matrix and Vibe are produced. Supposedly employes there work for three masters 1. Toyota 2. GM 3. the almightly greenback :lol: Seriously I don't quite comprehend the relationship, it is not a Toyota plant building Pontiacs, it is not a Pontiac plant building Toyotas, sort of a hybrid company to build both with one workforce. Therefore if Bill and Ted together build one Pontiac and one Toyota, the only difference in quality should be in the pieces parts. Excellent.
 

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I think they started this back in the 80's building the Corolla/Nova at the same plant, virtually identical cars. Both were crap :)
 

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I have two points.

I would agree the author's remarks of World War ll history are irrelevant and tend to discount the overall credibility of the artical.

But his overall point is very valid and seems nearly universal.

In Britain, British cars are rubbish. In the U.S. we treasure our old MGs and Triumphs spending absurd amounts of money on them to keep them running.
I'm guilty. Mine is a 1973 MGB. Dad's is a 1974 TR6.

The Japanese have an affection for German cars.

The Chinese have actually copied a British Rolls Royce, and may be about to rescue MG/Rover.

Oddly many people seem to think imported is better.

Having owned both German and Japanese imports, I've done my real world comparison shopping. My experience has been that the quality, reliability, durability, fuel economy, and simple value of good old "American Iron" is pretty hard to beat.

Second Point.

Hybrids are the result of a Clinton Administration subsidy for their creation production and sale. A GM executive observed early on that there was no economic case for Hybrids, and GM Continued pursuing Fuel Cells. If Hybrids actually were a viable fuel saving technology, our counterparts in Europe, the land of Precious Petrol, would know of them. Yet they do not. The simple math is that a Hybrid must run around 300,000 miles (2.50 a gallon gas) just to payoff it's higher inital cost. I'm betting the higher maintenance costs of two drive systems will lead to the rapid demise of Hybrids.
 

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dncaley said:
In Britain, British cars are rubbish. In the U.S. we treasure our old MGs and Triumphs spending absurd amounts of money on them to keep them running.
I'm guilty. Mine is a 1973 MGB. Dad's is a 1974 TR6.

The Japanese have an affection for German cars.

The Chinese have actually copied a British Rolls Royce, and may be about to rescue MG/Rover.

Oddly many people seem to think imported is better.
Just to add my 2 cents -- I had 3 friends from grad school (2 germans and 1 italian) and they thought American cars had the best styling, followed by European cars, with Japanese cars last. This is not enough data points, but maybe there is some truth that people prefer imports.

The 3 guys thought Japanese cars tended to be too bland. And the thing that stuck out for me is that they all thought American interiors were the nicest of american/european/japanese cars! Solstice being one of the few exceptions, I always thought this was an area that American cars were the weakest. But I guess taste is subjective :)
 

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At least what I think is a funny story:
I was driving around Berlin one day with some friends in a Volkswagon Pogo. I was in the back and not paying attention, when they asked me if the car in front of us was an american car. I sat up and looked. It was something like a '76 cadillac. I said yes, it was america. They asked how I could tell. I told them by it size, it was by far the biggest car on the road.
 

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My 2 cents worth

I work at a Pontiac/GMC dealer who also happens to have a Honda franchise on the premises. While I love and own Honda product, I was shocked on a recent perusal of our Civic and Accord inventory to find numerous fit issues with the front bumper covers and hood/grille/fender areas. When i comaped them to the Pontiac G6's and Grand Prix's in my inventory guess what? Pontiac has them cold. No fit issues visible to the naked eye whatsoever. Now if GM would only equip those cars with the silky smooth and powerful engines found in the Honda lineup.......
 

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Well I don't have much of an opinion one way or the other. I have a Chrysler and a Toyota <(until my Solstice gets here). But did anyone read the disclaimer at the bottom of the article?

Statistics excerpted from GM President John Smith's remarks to GM dealers, March 2005.
Don't think there may be some bias there do ya? :)
 

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SCCA HP Racer

Getting back to the GM Toyota joint venture in CA, it's called NUMMI. They started this back in the 80s as a study benefiting both parties. GM treats it as a training ground for TPS (Toyota Production System ) that everyone tries to emulate. GM sends production managers, supervisors and the like to NUMMI to learn what lean production and designing for quality really mean. Toyota trains their workforce, suppliers, and even competitors on TPS because it is good for money and good for the community. After reading "The Toyota Way" by Liker, I learned a lot about the company that made me view it in a new light.

NUMMI is currently building the Matrix/Vibe, which both are grear vehicles in terms of quality. The only thing all Toyota about this pair is the powertrain.

While GM may excel sometimes in initial quality studies, Toyota's production system, their commitment to lean production, and strong supplier relations give them a leg up in a business sense and I believe long term quality.
Don't get me wrong, GM has made GREAT STRIDES and I will continue driving their cars. Toyotas are boring appliances in my opinion.
 

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While GM may excel sometimes in initial quality studies, Toyota's production system, their commitment to lean production, and strong supplier relations give them a leg up in a business sense and I believe long term quality.
If this is true, then why do you see so few imports from 15-20 years ago. I think it has been the opposite,, that they appear strong in initial quality, but don't have the endurance of GM cars.
 
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