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Hello, I just found this forum a few days ago, and had to register in spite of myself. lol

I find myself allured and almost continually impressed by the Solstice, and things like your photochop gallery don't help my situation any! lol :p

I loved the concept and have been interested in any news about the project since and rather excited to see it come out, and meeting the promised price point. It's great to see Pontiac with such a cool sports car, and for something so cool to be so affordable, and for GM to have something to beat on the MX5 with.

I really don't like what they did with the front end of the production car though. I was enamored from the very first second I saw the concept, and the production, while very smilar, just looks 'off' some how. Seems they pushed the grills down, lifted the arrow, and broke the bumper cover off the hood. Why did they do this? Are there any aftermarket concept/prototype conversions out there to bring that look back?

Although I've always liked this car, at least as a concept, I like big cars and never really considred wanting a Miata sized car. I've been a passenger in one of them, they are fun, like a 4-wheeled motorcycle, but they are also rollerskates that look more like chick cars than anything else. And the Solstice *does* have some of that "chick-car" 'style' to it unfortunately.

A co-worker, who's Miata I rode in, was telling me about a Solstice that he saw on the road while driving his car, and he described it as bloody huge. This got me rather excited. If it's a large car, then it's basically a Pontiac Corvette! 2 great tastes that taste great together! (I'd give anything to see Corvette released from that hideous chevy association)

That led to me thinking about it more and eventually googling for a forum after the guys at LS1Tech basically trashed someone for claiming this car to be cool.


I figure this is about the best place to ask this - why is there a Saturn Sky?

I could get into a myriad of things that are wrong with this whole idea, but just to focus on one - it's going to undermine Pontiac. Everybody I've talked to all agree (unanimously) that the Sky is more aggressive and just plain "better looking" than the Solstice. Even if it's priced a bit more, or is a bit less lithe, people will buy what looks good (at least in this case since neither of them have bright chevy badges (you know, like bright shiny objects) that will sell cars even if they're sub-par), and just mod it as needed.

At a time when the entire company is in trouble and wounded brands are, supposedly, trying to be saved, this is about the worst thing to do. Unless(!), the plan is to shut down Pontiac anyway. This would protect the platform in addition to helping sell it to the board.

I mean, why couldn't they just sell it in europe as a Vauxhall? Other than incompetence or conspiracy, I can't see why this was done. And it's rather upsetting. Even I have to admit that the Sky's front end is meaner, and with the changes from the concept, the Solstice is basically given a further handicap.

What are the plans for the twins? Will they be doing something to keep the Solstice dominant? Even that would be hard to do because people will just by the Sky and drop mods on it to make up for it's weaknesses, but at least it would be something.



I've been wanting a Corvette for, well, forever really, they've always been my favorite car, just never seemed like they were attainable. Now I think I'm done messing around with other cars and need to just get one or I'll never be happy. Something as a project car to have fun building. C1 and 2 are too expensive and should never be modded (another reason I stayed away from 'Vettes, I always felt it was raping them, but I've gotten much better. lol :D ), C6's are hideous (I'd love to shake Dave Hill's hand for the performance then kick him in the nuts for that front end and profile lol), so that leaves C3-5. 4 or 5 would have to be a hard top, but C3s look best as 'verts. Maybe a nice '69 'vert or something. But that's in the $20G range for something that would need resto work over and above that. And the Solstice is wider (and we all know, Wider is better. ;) ), and only about 20" or so shorter, and lighter :eek: . So the lure of the Solstice increases. lol

It's not going to happen any time soon, but it's something that is torturing me none-the-less. What are the Mallett cars going for? Any truth to the rumor of a GM produced V8 Solstice? That's the only other downside (aside from being short and small), I could never own a car with a 4 banger. Just not my thing. V6 is ok in a daily beater, but a toy has to have a V8 or more. The exhaust pulses on anything else just don't line up right and don't produce that blood stirring sound.

What does the Ecotec weigh? How wide is the widest tire that you can stuff in the front of the car?

On google, I found 305lbs for the 2.2 Ecotec. If that is accurate for the 2.4 as well, and if Pontiac is accurate with thier claims of 50/50, then it means that dropping a real engine :)P ;) lol) in there will take it up to 3045lbs and a 53/47 distribution. Not counting trannys - what does the Aisin weigh? IIRC, the T-56 is about 116lbs. All in all it's still impressive, but it does mean that my car will be able to remain top of heirachy in my collection (which is the goal. ;) ). If the Solstice winds up being untouchable in performance potential I might just have to stay away from it lest I get jaded. lol Who knows, maybe you guys can steer me away from the Stingray in the long run. lol


BTW - if anyone is wondering, the screen name is Irish Gaelic, an arbitrary combination of the words for Fire, and Bird. ;) (pronounced heena A-ahn, with the h sound being almost a muted ch sound, sorta like a German ch in a way) In honor of both my, and my car's, ancestry. Because I don't drive a Firebird, I drive a descendent - a Trans Am. ;) A 2002 WS6 Trans Am, Black on Black, M6. (1.5 more years of payments left.... :( )

(not my car, but identical to it)
http://cephiros.homeip.net/taws6.jpg

http://www.firebirdgallery.com/Firebird Ad Images/98fbad12.jpg
:D
 

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Welcome to the boards!

I will leave most of the answers to the real pros here on the site but I have to comment on the looks comparison between the sky and solstice.

While everyone you have spoken to may prefer the Sky, it has been the exact opposite in my experience. Almost everyone I have talked to about the two cars has prefered the Solstice. I like them both and if the Solstice didnt exist I would probably consider a Sky, but its squared and less inspired looks just dont work as well for me.

You can get on a waiting list for a Sky now, but that doesnt seem to be slowing down the growing list of thousands ordering Solstices.

I agree with you that the changes from the concept to production were a bit disapointing, but really they dont bother me much and its still the hottest looking car on the road imo. :)
 

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thine_èan said:
A co-worker, who's Miata I rode in, was telling me about a Solstice that he saw on the road while driving his car, and he described it as bloody huge.
I don't think it's quite as big as he seemed to.

thine_èan said:
I figure this is about the best place to ask this - why is there a Saturn Sky?

I could get into a myriad of things that are wrong with this whole idea, but just to focus on one - it's going to undermine Pontiac. Everybody I've talked to all agree (unanimously) that the Sky is more aggressive and just plain "better looking" than the Solstice.
Really? I have met no one that thinks that. It must be a regional thing.
 

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I could get into a myriad of things that are wrong with this whole idea, but just to focus on one - it's going to undermine Pontiac. Everybody I've talked to all agree (unanimously) that the Sky is more aggressive and just plain "better looking" than the Solstice.
You're joking, right? :lol:
 

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He has to be joking
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies. :)

No I'm not joking about everyone I've spoken to liking the Sky better, and AFAIK it's not regional as it includes not only local people, but a bunch of car nuts spread around the country and globe (on 2 different forums), as well as hear-say about the talk on the Miata boards and the like.

Sabash, what would you compare it to in terms of size? From what I've seen it looks like it's about the same width as my car, and about 3ft shorter (with only a 6" shorter wheelbase, which is the scary part lol).

I forget the length of the C6, but I know even that is shorter than my car. Would you say the Solstice is more S-14 Silvia (240SX coupe (not hatch) in the US) sized, or more Miata sized?

Without seeing it in person yet (none at any local dealers yet), and no good pics next to other cars it's really difficult to get a handle on comparative size.
 

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Pontiac has between 13,000 to 20,000 orders for the Solstice with the maximum production being set at 18,000 to 20,000 for the MY. The Sky is set for around 10,000 a year. Do the math. The Sol is in great demand. Pontiac's problem at this point in time is that the demand is too high. Don't know who you're talking to, but they don't have a clue. ;)
 

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Welcome to Solstice-land :thumbs:

You have so many questions don't know where to begin :lol:

Sky offers people same car with different skin. Shouldn't undermine Pontiac much since styling is so much different...gives those who don't like Solstice styling an option. Another thing Solstice offers over Sky is ability to get one stripped (Sky will be more loaded with options standard).

Solstice does have road stance that appears wider and bigger than MX-5. Solstice is almost as wide as a C6.
 

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Welcome to the nuthouse! I'll try to answer some of your questions not necessarily in order or completely.

Why Sky,also? The Saturn brand was determined to need a makeover. The Sky, followed by Aura are the catalyst and denote a change to steel skin. As at Pontiac, the Kappa is a halo car, not to be a sales leader, but to lead into sales. My personal preference is teh smoother rounded Solstice, but to exh their own. That's one of teh reasons teh Kappas are not just badge engineered. The Sky bears more resemblence to the Vauxhall concept and is probably closer to what the Opel third twin will look like, although we have been told that neither Sol nor Sky can be sold in Europe due to pedestrian/car impact rules.

In appearance on the street and in the parking lot the Solstice is close to the size of a Boxter. (Even a GTO looks as small as a Sunfire when viewed from the cab of a Dodge Ram 2500)

The cncept car's entire front tilted forward. But this did not easily transform into a crashworthy front bumper at a price point still below $20k base, stripped. So only the top of fenders above grill pivots. STill cool in my estimation.

Unless you talk 'vette or Viper or Panoz or other exotic, most of the roadsters on the market have exclusively or start with a 4 banger. Power is what it is. 177. There will be higher output versions down the road. The engineers are actually on record as fighting to keep the Kappas as 4 only. A lightweight, mini V8 like Fiat used to build (3.0 litre and under) would give you less weight than a traditional smallblock, but price per hp would be out of reach. Remember this is an affordable roadster, not a C6 or XLR sales stealer.

You certainly can buy a Solstice for under $25k, spend $20k on a V8 conversion and you have your basic $45k Solstice. http://www.mallettcars.com/solsticedetailsorder.pdf Or you can wait and get turbo or S/C or 'magic enhanced' higher output factory model when issued for probably less than $5k additional.

The Solstice will remain the dominant twin, or triplet. There are about twice as many Pontiac dealers in teh US than Saturn. They will build about twice as many Sols as Skys. A lot depends on where in the country, or which country you live in and whether you mind or don't mind driving 90 miles one way for service or 3 miles roundtrip.
 

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thine_èan said:
Without seeing it in person yet (none at any local dealers yet), and no good pics next to other cars it's really difficult to get a handle on comparative size.
There were some size comparison pictures in the gallery, I thought. Look through there. Several nose to nose comparisons with other cars.

It's a small car. Just looked up the dimensions of a 2005 Miata MX-5 and a 2006 Solstice. The Solstice is about 2 inches longer, 2 inches taller and 5 inches wider than the Miata. So it's not that big of a difference. Now, the styling probably makes it _look_ like a much bigger car compared to a Miata. But it's only slightly larger.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sabash, I didn't see those pics you mention in the gallery. Guess I was too distracted by the cool chops. lol

I did just peruse it now though. I see that they did what I dread - cut the rear wheel opening smaller than the front. I know the front has to be a certain size since the wheels turn, but the back should match for symmetry. Seems all new cars do it and I've just come to expect it, but that doesn't make it less annoying. lol I suppose with 17s and a rake it would go a long way toward helping that.

I had heard it was bigger than the Miata, beyond that one guys encounter. But he drives an older one, so that may be even smaller? Not sure of the year his is. Kinda disappointing in a way, but not the end of the world.

I like that Orange Coupe concept. Seeing it again, it looks like not only did they push the grills down, they also made them smaller.

That Opel Coupe concept is mean. It's screms M Coupe, but better (as in actually looking good lol). I hope the production version is just like that and ends up in Gran Turismo 5.

Chieftain and mceb (and everybody), thanks for the answers and comments. And by all means, keep 'em comin'. ;)

The Mallett conversions are $20G on the top? That's steep. Lingenfelter sells LS1 long blocks for about $2000. Toss in a PCM, wiring harness, and custom exhaust and you can't be more than $5000. Sure it's a 5.7 and not a 6.0, but what's 50hp when you're over 300 anyway? Especially in a 2800lb car. lol

Are Ronnie and the Daytona's still alive? Think we can get them to record "Hey Little Solstice"? lol

It's nice to see the Solstice orders doubling the Sky's, but on the other hand, I was surprised to see how many Trans Am owners would have bought a camaro if it was all that was available, and/or just fell into the T/A based on timing. So perhaps that 20K list might be 25 to 28K if there was no Sky? (I'm sure there are some who want the Sky because they like it and that's that). Granted that would cut some total sales to the mothership, but, it would help make Pontiac look and do better, and being the only division to lose sales in June or July (forget which) during Employee pricing, it seems they could really use the help. Especially since I'm half convinced that they don't know what to do with the brand and aren't all that concerned about it. (where's John Delorean when you need him?)


Aspenrose has a nice LT1 Trans Am. Aspen, Is that Firebird spoiler standard equipment on your car? I think I heard about them only offering the "uplevel" (commonly accepted as *the* Trans Am wing) as an option on the very early 4th Gens, and you could get it as part of a GT package or something. Just curious. Nice car though.

Sweet C5 'vert on page 2 of member's rides. Troy, what made you buy a Solstice when you already had that monster? Having both you could probably help me the most in my dilemma. :) lol
 

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The Mallett conversions are $20G on the top? That's steep. Lingenfelter sells LS1 long blocks for about $2000. Toss in a PCM, wiring harness, and custom exhaust and you can't be more than $5000. Sure it's a 5.7 and not a 6.0, but what's 50hp when you're over 300 anyway? Especially in a 2800lb car. lol
The LS2 crate motor has a list price of $6,375. Mallet may be getting a volume discount, but it can' t be more than 10% less, if anything.

www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/ChevySmallBlockV8s/LS2.html

If you like big cars, the Solstice will likely be too small for you. The width and high beltline make it appear to be bigger than it is. It certainly doesn't drive like a big car.
 

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Whew......

thine_èan said:
Hello, I just found this forum a few days ago, and had to register in spite of myself. lol

I find myself allured and almost continually impressed by the Solstice, and things like your photochop gallery don't help my situation any! lol :p

I loved the concept and have been interested in any news about the project since and rather excited to see it come out, and meeting the promised price point. It's great to see Pontiac with such a cool sports car, and for something so cool to be so affordable, and for GM to have something to beat on the MX5 with.

I really don't like what they did with the front end of the production car though. I was enamored from the very first second I saw the concept, and the production, while very smilar, just looks 'off' some how. Seems they pushed the grills down, lifted the arrow, and broke the bumper cover off the hood. Why did they do this? Are there any aftermarket concept/prototype conversions out there to bring that look back?

Although I've always liked this car, at least as a concept, I like big cars and never really considred wanting a Miata sized car. I've been a passenger in one of them, they are fun, like a 4-wheeled motorcycle, but they are also rollerskates that look more like chick cars than anything else. And the Solstice *does* have some of that "chick-car" 'style' to it unfortunately.

A co-worker, who's Miata I rode in, was telling me about a Solstice that he saw on the road while driving his car, and he described it as bloody huge. This got me rather excited. If it's a large car, then it's basically a Pontiac Corvette! 2 great tastes that taste great together! (I'd give anything to see Corvette released from that hideous chevy association)

That led to me thinking about it more and eventually googling for a forum after the guys at LS1Tech basically trashed someone for claiming this car to be cool.


I figure this is about the best place to ask this - why is there a Saturn Sky?

I could get into a myriad of things that are wrong with this whole idea, but just to focus on one - it's going to undermine Pontiac. Everybody I've talked to all agree (unanimously) that the Sky is more aggressive and just plain "better looking" than the Solstice. Even if it's priced a bit more, or is a bit less lithe, people will buy what looks good (at least in this case since neither of them have bright chevy badges (you know, like bright shiny objects) that will sell cars even if they're sub-par), and just mod it as needed.

At a time when the entire company is in trouble and wounded brands are, supposedly, trying to be saved, this is about the worst thing to do. Unless(!), the plan is to shut down Pontiac anyway. This would protect the platform in addition to helping sell it to the board.

I mean, why couldn't they just sell it in europe as a Vauxhall? Other than incompetence or conspiracy, I can't see why this was done. And it's rather upsetting. Even I have to admit that the Sky's front end is meaner, and with the changes from the concept, the Solstice is basically given a further handicap.

What are the plans for the twins? Will they be doing something to keep the Solstice dominant? Even that would be hard to do because people will just by the Sky and drop mods on it to make up for it's weaknesses, but at least it would be something.



I've been wanting a Corvette for, well, forever really, they've always been my favorite car, just never seemed like they were attainable. Now I think I'm done messing around with other cars and need to just get one or I'll never be happy. Something as a project car to have fun building. C1 and 2 are too expensive and should never be modded (another reason I stayed away from 'Vettes, I always felt it was raping them, but I've gotten much better. lol :D ), C6's are hideous (I'd love to shake Dave Hill's hand for the performance then kick him in the nuts for that front end and profile lol), so that leaves C3-5. 4 or 5 would have to be a hard top, but C3s look best as 'verts. Maybe a nice '69 'vert or something. But that's in the $20G range for something that would need resto work over and above that. And the Solstice is wider (and we all know, Wider is better. ;) ), and only about 20" or so shorter, and lighter :eek: . So the lure of the Solstice increases. lol

It's not going to happen any time soon, but it's something that is torturing me none-the-less. What are the Mallett cars going for? Any truth to the rumor of a GM produced V8 Solstice? That's the only other downside (aside from being short and small), I could never own a car with a 4 banger. Just not my thing. V6 is ok in a daily beater, but a toy has to have a V8 or more. The exhaust pulses on anything else just don't line up right and don't produce that blood stirring sound.

What does the Ecotec weigh? How wide is the widest tire that you can stuff in the front of the car?

On google, I found 305lbs for the 2.2 Ecotec. If that is accurate for the 2.4 as well, and if Pontiac is accurate with thier claims of 50/50, then it means that dropping a real engine :)P ;) lol) in there will take it up to 3045lbs and a 53/47 distribution. Not counting trannys - what does the Aisin weigh? IIRC, the T-56 is about 116lbs. All in all it's still impressive, but it does mean that my car will be able to remain top of heirachy in my collection (which is the goal. ;) ). If the Solstice winds up being untouchable in performance potential I might just have to stay away from it lest I get jaded. lol Who knows, maybe you guys can steer me away from the Stingray in the long run. lol


BTW - if anyone is wondering, the screen name is Irish Gaelic, an arbitrary combination of the words for Fire, and Bird. ;) (pronounced heena A-ahn, with the h sound being almost a muted ch sound, sorta like a German ch in a way) In honor of both my, and my car's, ancestry. Because I don't drive a Firebird, I drive a descendent - a Trans Am. ;) A 2002 WS6 Trans Am, Black on Black, M6. (1.5 more years of payments left.... :( )
:lurk: Dang that's a lot of typing....... :yawn:
 
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