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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's all give Pontiac a hand and find those listings and obvious EOP Violations and post them here. I'll stick this thread at top.

I've noticed Miami Lakes GMC, who is either:
1) falsely claiming one of their "allocation" as a "first 1000", or
2) has obtained a "first 1000" under false pretenses and is actually selling a "first 1000".

Their E-bay listing is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4543914319&category=6386

DEALERSHIPS ARE EXCLUDED FROM ORDERING A FIRST 1000 OR PARTICIPATING IN THE EARLY ORDER PROGRAM.
 

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Is not being present at the dealer at 2PM a violation? According to this (taken from the registration page)

"Dealership visit is required and a deposit required to place an order. Dealers will begin accepting orders at 2 pm Eastern Time (1 pm Central Time, 12 pm Mountain Time, 11 am Pacific Time) April 15, 2005."

it is (at least to my understanding), because any orders to the dealer before 2PM would be rejected.
 

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Copied from my post in another thread about the Miami Lakes Auction (though the E-bay rule I refer to applies to every Solstice on E-bay at this time):

Theorhetically, though FAR from likely, this guy could have had 4 legitimate customers that ordered under the EOP. He then convinced them somehow to give up their cars in exchange for *something.* Those cars will count against his allocation, sure... but he can now sell them as exclusive "first 1,000" cars for a premium.

That's the only loophole I can fathom that might possibly get this slimeball through the process legitimately.

HOWEVER, this auction still violates E-bay rules. Here is E-bay's policy on pre-sale listings:

Pre-sale Listings are those that advertise the sale of items that are not in the control or possession of the seller at the time of the listing. These listings generally consist of items that are sold in advance of a delivery date to the general public.

eBay does permit pre-sales on a limited basis, as long as the seller guarantees that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the date of purchase (i.e., the day the listing ends or the date the item is purchased from a store front listing).

A seller who lists a pre-sale item on eBay must clearly indicate within the listing the fact that the item is a pre-sale item and a delivery date that indicates the item will be shipped by the 30th day from the end date of the listing. Additionally, this text must be no less than the default font size of the eBay Sell Your Item form. Currently the default font size is HTML font size 3. eBay will end any listing that is a pre-sale which does not include this information.

Such a policy ensures that bidders can pay for an item and still have the option to use eBay's feedback system, Fraud Protection Program and other protections.

eBay, at it's discretion, for special promotional events, may approve a 1st party manufacturer to sell an item outside of the 30-day pre-sale guideline so long as the first-party manufacturer is supplying the actual item for sale. These exceptions will be made for certain promotions and must be approved prior to listing items for sale on eBay that fit the exception above.
 

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2KWK4U said:
Copied from my post in another thread about the Miami Lakes Auction (though the E-bay rule I refer to applies to every Solstice on E-bay at this time):

Theorhetically, though FAR from likely, this guy could have had 4 legitimate customers that ordered under the EOP. He then convinced them somehow to give up their cars in exchange for *something.* Those cars will count against his allocation, sure... but he can now sell them as exclusive "first 1,000" cars for a premium.
Even this would be technically against the rules.
In the event of a cancellation, the dealer should notify program headquarters as soon as they know of the cancellation. If production has not been started on that EOP vehicle, then that person's order will be cancelled and the slot should go to the next person on the waiting list.

Only if the order is cancelled too late to stop production should the car be delivered to the dealer in place of one of his regular allocation. Since production has not yet started, any dealer using this as an excuse would still be breaking the rules.
 

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skyhigh said:
Is not being present at the dealer at 2PM a violation? According to this (taken from the registration page)

"Dealership visit is required and a deposit required to place an order. Dealers will begin accepting orders at 2 pm Eastern Time (1 pm Central Time, 12 pm Mountain Time, 11 am Pacific Time) April 15, 2005."

it is (at least to my understanding), because any orders to the dealer before 2PM would be rejected.
That is from the first web page. Not from the rules. The rules available at the Apprentice site do not "require" a dealership visit, only that the registration number is taken to the dealer without specific format to how the number is "taken". The rules do not require a deposit, they only say that a dealer may request one. And there is nothing in the rules about 2:00pm.


Sorry for posting this here, don't want to highjack this sticky, just wanted to respond. Solsticeman feel free to delete or move it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
dengel said:
Even this would be technically against the rules.
In the event of a cancellation, the dealer should notify program headquarters as soon as they know of the cancellation. If production has not been started on that EOP vehicle, then that person's order will be cancelled and the slot should go to the next person on the waiting list.

Only if the order is cancelled too late to stop production should the car be delivered to the dealer in place of one of his regular allocation. Since production has not yet started, any dealer using this as an excuse would still be breaking the rules.
That's exactly correct - if a customer doesn't want his "first 1000", then they should give it up so someone else on the backordered list gets one instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Small Dealer said:
That is from the first web page. Not from the rules. The rules available at the Apprentice site do not "require" a dealership visit, only that the registration number is taken to the dealer without specific format to how the number is "taken". The rules do not require a deposit, they only say that a dealer may request one. And there is nothing in the rules about 2:00pm.


Sorry for posting this here, don't want to highjack this sticky, just wanted to respond. Solsticeman feel free to delete or move it.
Nope, it's fine.
 

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Called the slimeball. He's full of sh*t. He claims that a buyer put a deposit on the car and then ran into unforseen health problems... also claims that under the rules of the program he has to sell the first 5 he gets for MSRP, then after that he can sell them for whatever he wants (partially true). Says his dealership is getting SIX of the first 1,000. I tried to explain the rules to him, but he wouldn't listen.

Hope big GM is watching this turd.

Think if enough of us call and waste enough of his time he'll see the light, pull the auction, and turn the slot back over like he's supposed to?
 

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2KWK4U said:
Called the slimeball. He's full of sh*t. He claims that a buyer put a deposit on the car and then ran into unforseen health problems... also claims that under the rules of the program he has to sell the first 5 he gets for MSRP, then after that he can sell them for whatever he wants (partially true). Says his dealership is getting SIX of the first 1,000. I tried to explain the rules to him, but he wouldn't listen.

Hope big GM is watching this turd.

Think if enough of us call and waste enough of his time he'll see the light, pull the auction, and turn the slot back over like he's supposed to?
I forwarded links to his ebay ad & this thread to my contact @ EOP. Called to let her know, she's off right now, but due in any time. I called there too, played dumb, he fed me a line of crap, then I asked for his BAC, he asked why, then I told him I was calling from Detroit. I figured I'd celebrate like that since I sold a car today. :willy:
 

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2KWK4U said:
Think if enough of us call and waste enough of his time he'll see the light, pull the auction, and turn the slot back over like he's supposed to?
I'd recommend against that ... he would probably just pull the auction and find another way to make a buck without drawing as much attention. But maybe if everybody notifies GM, they'll pull the plug on his B.S. and return the car to the E.O.P. waitlist. I forwarded a link and complained to Pontiac through their website contact info. Maybe if enough people do, they'll crack down.
 

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I think they have a special model. Read description:

Accessories
OPTIONS AVAILABLE
Air Conditioning
Anti-Lock Brakes
Carpeted Floor Mats
Limited Slip Rear Differential
MP3-Capable CD Player
MP3-Capable 6-Disc,In-Dash CD Player
Moonsoon Premium 7-Speaker System
Onstar :lol:
XM Satellite Radio
18-Inch Chrome-Plated Aluminum Wheels
18-Inch Chrome-Plated Aluminum Wheels
5-Speed Automatic Transmission :lol:
 

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autosol said:
I think they have a special model. Read description:

Accessories
OPTIONS AVAILABLE
Air Conditioning
Anti-Lock Brakes
Carpeted Floor Mats
Limited Slip Rear Differential
MP3-Capable CD Player
MP3-Capable 6-Disc,In-Dash CD Player
Moonsoon Premium 7-Speaker System
Onstar :lol:
XM Satellite Radio
18-Inch Chrome-Plated Aluminum Wheels
18-Inch Chrome-Plated Aluminum Wheels
5-Speed Automatic Transmission :lol:
My dealer said onstar was available until he got in and placed the order, I had to get mine without Onstar as it won't be available until after September.
 

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I think this is a great idea. I saw three on ebay, two from non-dealers (Non-dealer 1 and non-dealer 2 ) and then the one dealer that was already mentioned here.

Did you read what the second guy put? Apparently people have already told him it's illegal and he writes about it being an investment. Why don't jerks like that let true car lovers have their fun? I love America, and I love capitalism, but it sucks that there's got to be jerks everywhere.

By the way, is there a dealer on this site who knows people at Pontiac and can forward these along?
 

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I'm Sorry

:nonod:
Hey Guys, I'm sorry, I must confess to posting a Solstice on eBay - I am not a dealer.

I just wanted to let everyone know my rationale. I love this car and want to keep it. I've been drooling over the Solstice for about six months now and have been waiting for it to be released. I showed up at my dealer at 7 am on the 15th (they opened at 7:30am). I waited eagerly while the dealer tried and tried to get my order in and celebrated when it was entered. I really want this car.

The truth though is that if someone wants it enough to pay top dollar for it (and we all know those people are out there), then I would be foolish not to take the opportunity.

And the fact is, while I've gotten plenty of negative feedback, I've gotten even more people who have said "great idea, tell me if it works so that I can sell mine."

If a Solstice sells for $36,000 that's not a bad thing for any of us or for Pontiac. It means that our cars have $10k instant equity and that serious investors are interested. And frankly, it may not be a bad investment even at $36k. If this car turns Pontiac around then it will go down in history and for one of the first 1,000 of a car that goes in the history books $36k is a good deal.

Face it, if someone sells a Solstice for $36k or $50k wouldn't you be the next in line to put yours on ebay? This is not being a jerk or a capitalist pig, it's just being real - don't you think?

Now if there is something against this in the rules then I didn't see it anywhere. In fact, I got my idea to list it on ebay from GM. This is a clip from an article about the Solstice...
=========
Solstice has been priced at $19,995, including $575 for freight. Hopson said dealers have been “strongly advised” not to sell those first 1,000 at a premium but noted that Pontiac can't dictate what dealers charge.

Of course, you have to expect that at least one of those first 1,000 buyers will leave the dealer and head to their computer to list the car on eBay.

“Our goal is to generate excitement, not drive up the price, but if some move onto eBay, and I'm certain that's likely, that's up to them,” Hopson said.

==========
So the bottom line is that I'm not buying the car and stealing the opportunity from someone else just to make a profit. I want it as much as the next guy. But I also don't want to sit back and watch someone else sell a car for $50k and then be too late to take up the opportunity.

Okay, let the flames begin :)
 

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GM Wanted this car on Ebay

BTW... I'm convinced GM wanted this car on eBay, and that it's not entirely bad that the servers crashed because of the overload of people. GM wanted to create buzz. Having cars sell on ebay for double MSRP and having so much demand the servers crash, that get's into the news, and that create's buzz. My thoughts anyway.
 

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Sorry, I'm not convinced. I'm not going to flame you...as the country song goes, whatever you do today you'll have to sleep with tonight.

But, I will say you missed my point completely. Sure, any one of us could go and probably sell one of the first 1000 for more than what we paid for it. But, if you're buying the car to immediately sell it, then you're depriving someone else who really wants it just so you can make a few bucks.

Read some of these posts...listen to the stories of people who waited for years for the car to come out. They know every detail of the car in and out...they have a passion for the car. They would like nothing better than to be seated in the car just for the sake of being seated in the car. And they can't because they didn't get lucky...that's really what it boils down to, isn't it? (Or blessings as the case may be.)

My hunting dog is worth a hell of a lot more than I paid for him. My wife's ring is worth a lot more than I bought it for. And some other things I own I could easily sell them for 2 to 3 times what they're worth. I wouldn't do it though because of what they mean to me.

You've got thousands of people...many of whom are on this board...who didn't get a car. Sure it's great that the car will be worth a lot, but dude...pay it forward. Money isn't everything. Seriously, pay it forward.
 

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Sounds like Profiteering to me, and I don't think GM intended them to get MARKED up to $36k read your own post, their intend is to NOT get the price jacked up. I for one hope they cancel your Allocation after yu have agreed to a set price, then the guy Sues you for damages from Falsely advertising something you are still not guaranteed to received. GM is still weeding out the list. Final approvals are still being made.

:brentil:
solsticedreamin said:
BTW... I'm convinced GM wanted this car on eBay, and that it's not entirely bad that the servers crashed because of the overload of people. GM wanted to create buzz. Having cars sell on ebay for double MSRP and having so much demand the servers crash, that get's into the news, and that create's buzz. My thoughts anyway.
 
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