Security?
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since this is a security thread, maybe my question will help the cause.
the MSM has a "transponder key" which from other forums I hear is a pretty sound anti-theft technology. Any thoughts?
I'm primarily concerned about the joy ride thieves, the pro will get it if he wants, it's the kid with a screwdriver I'm concerned about. From what I hear, the transponder key solves that worry pretty well, and I was told a kill switch would be redundant.
the MSM has a "transponder key" which from other forums I hear is a pretty sound anti-theft technology. Any thoughts?
I'm primarily concerned about the joy ride thieves, the pro will get it if he wants, it's the kid with a screwdriver I'm concerned about. From what I hear, the transponder key solves that worry pretty well, and I was told a kill switch would be redundant.
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It will probably have PassKey theft deterent, like most other GM vehicles. If I remember correctly, PassKey uses a specific electrical resistance in the key during ignition. If the key is not in the ignition, the computer kills the fuel pump. I'm sure the pros have learned how to bypass this, but your average teenage joyrider probably doesn't.
Security for roadsters
If you want after market security, get a dual zone radar based alarm, most any alarms can add radar. Radar basically gives you a perimiter, with dual zone you set a warning perimiter that just chirps the alarm when you are close, then the inner zone will trigger a full out alarm if anything pentrates the zone. eg if some one just reaches into the car the alarm will sound, but if they just walk by it will simply chirp.
Add a few 120db piezo's and no one will stay in the car long enought to do anything
If you want after market security, get a dual zone radar based alarm, most any alarms can add radar. Radar basically gives you a perimiter, with dual zone you set a warning perimiter that just chirps the alarm when you are close, then the inner zone will trigger a full out alarm if anything pentrates the zone. eg if some one just reaches into the car the alarm will sound, but if they just walk by it will simply chirp.
Add a few 120db piezo's and no one will stay in the car long enought to do anything
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Do one search in Google for "GM PassKey Theft Deterent" and you'll come up with a LOAD of $30+ devices which are used in remote starters. These all bypass the system. You can, if you want, build your own with a resistor from Radio Shack (yes, you need to know the correct resistor value.. not sure if all the systems use the same or not). Cut the lead wires, drop the resistor across them, hotwire car per preferred method and you're off.pontiacinblack said:
It's not a hard thing to do at all, provided you can get to the wires easy. One reason I loved my Alero with the ignition on the dash. It was harder to get to the ignition wires than if it was on the column.
That said... joy riders will take what they want, just like a thief. All you can do is try to slow them down, and/or not make it easy for them.
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rlhammon, are you saying a joyrider can get past a transponder key? I don't know much about them, but we discussed this on another forum, and the consensus was this is a very good security. they even said no car with a transpoder key has yet been stolen. I think this means the average idiot with a screwdriver can't drive away in 60 seconds.
I'm no expert, and would like anyone's opinion!
I'm no expert, and would like anyone's opinion!
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I have not done this, but others with Alero's (with the Passlock system) just simply purchased one of those by-pass modules in order to install an aftermarket remote car starter. It was needed to start the car without the key in the ignition. Seems to me that it would work just fine to help you steal the car as well, since you could by-pass this system.RODEO said:
Someone tore one of those boxes apart and figured out the resitance values (used a simple meter) and then built their own bypass out of resistors from Radio Shack.
Granted you have to access the wires, cut them, drop in the box / resistors (I'd see using a project board as a simple means for this), conect that up, and then still hotwire the car since you don't have a key. It's not going to be a 30 second operation, but I bet in 60-90 seconds you could be in.
I just installed a remote starter in my pickup a few months ago and it has the little computer chip thing. (really nice if you lock yourself out, you can put a spare anywhere but the spare cannot start the car only unlock it) Anyways, I got the bypass thing and all it does is allow the car to start, but as soon as someone touces the brake it shuts off. I am not 100% sure if you can use this to completely start the engine and drive off, but looking at what the remote start manual had to say I doubt it. Also, living in a city when i hear an alarm now I just ignore them so I doubt their usefulness. For example every time there is a large thunderstorm the concussion from the thunder sets off the alarms, so now if i hear the alarm i just completely ignore it.
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wait a minute, you guy started talking about remote starters! I want to know how good a transponder key is? I'vebeen researching for an hour, and here's a good find (below), seems a simple thief would have a very hard time getting past this, or are we on the other forum missing something?
quote:
Major developments are happening in the car manufacturing business; Short reading range transponders (magnetic coupling) are being included in vehicle ignition keys, allowing the onboard management computer to verify the authenticity of the key to try to reduce vehicle theft. The advantage of this technology is significant since the management system controls the fuel injection, timing and performance of the engine. An invalid identity allows the management system to completely close down the motor vehicle engine. This technology offers a major improvement over previous vehicle anti theft systems because communication between the sensor of the key and the engine management system is accomplished by a system of codes dependent on the value of the ID transponder so that thieves cannot simply cut appropriate wires and bypass the communication system.
endquote
source: http://www.autotechs.com/items/item1022.htm
quote:
Major developments are happening in the car manufacturing business; Short reading range transponders (magnetic coupling) are being included in vehicle ignition keys, allowing the onboard management computer to verify the authenticity of the key to try to reduce vehicle theft. The advantage of this technology is significant since the management system controls the fuel injection, timing and performance of the engine. An invalid identity allows the management system to completely close down the motor vehicle engine. This technology offers a major improvement over previous vehicle anti theft systems because communication between the sensor of the key and the engine management system is accomplished by a system of codes dependent on the value of the ID transponder so that thieves cannot simply cut appropriate wires and bypass the communication system.
endquote
source: http://www.autotechs.com/items/item1022.htm
Rodeo, the keys are pretty good, there are still ways around it, IE, someone can steal your VIN # and get a key programmed or someone can simply break in replace the computer with their own using their own key and steal the car. So yes it will block the casual joy rider, but not the pro.
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Must have misunderstood your question. The system I was talking about had a resistance value on the key which was checked. And those were not difficult to defeat. It sounds like this has system is different, in that it works in a similar fashion to the key fob to unlock the doors, but it has a system built into the key.RODEO said:
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It must be similar to RFID because you have to buy a replacement key blank from the dealer only - so there is some type of chip embedded in the key that when in the vicinity of the car allows full operation of all functions. A standard copy of the cut edge only would allow manual opening of the doors and ignition functions, but if you want to travel more than 50 mph or 50 miles or work the radio you need the chip.
My Ford (2001 Cougar) has an RFID system. No key, no start. Period. Sucks if you lose your key ('cause you're towing that sucker, then), but there's no easy way of bypassing the system or work-around to let you get it out of the drive-way. There are after-market remote-starts that will work, but you've got to have an original key to get them set up because they have to send the same code to the RF antenna in the key-cylinder. Agree that the original GM Passkey system doesn't seem all that effective, but the RFID systems seem to work very well. Ironically, went into a panic when walking my ex's dog once. Dog wanted to play and jumped up on me, causing me to drop my car-keys in the snow. I was seriously screwed (100 bucks for a replacement key, and, as I said, no key, no start), but after digging around in the snow-bank, I found the keys. Phew!
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Assume it's the same as GM's been putting on cars for over a decade. Small black "thingy" (some call it a chip but I wonder about that) on the ignition key. When I've had to buy a duplicate ignition key, it's a dealer only item. Cost per key was $26 at one dealer, $35 at another. There are several different thingy blanks (less than a dozen) but all have the same actual key shape. Watched them cut the shape as usual but after they were done, put both keys (old and new) in a box and do some sort of magic mumbo jumbo. If it is some sort of chip, might have used the existing one to program the new one. Or it might have been just part of the extra entertainment I got for my added $24-$33. 
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