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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184893&highlight=reliable

Seems Consumer Reports thinks that out of all the small cars on the market GM's Cobalt is the least reliable.

Does this say much about the Ecotech engine. I know one is a 2.2 and one is a 2.4, but I wouldn't call it confidence inspiring.

Anyone have the article and know what parts of the Cobalt are most troublesome?

Reliated article, most reliable cars:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184867&highlight=reliable
 

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Yeah, the main problem is without the details we don't know what on the Cobalt people found unreliable. I've read on the cobaltss.net forums a lot of normal Cobalt owners have issues with the rotors wearing down quickly. However we have a mix of Cobalt SS and Malibu MAXX rotors I believe and our cars aren't FWD as well. Also the 2.2L ECOTEC is the same as the last gen Cavalier/Sunfire and I don't remember hearing any issues from those car owners about engine reliability.
 

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One thing to consider also on the consumer report surveys is that they take a Survey from owners. Say 100 customers. Well if 50 of those customers have reliability problems does not mean that the 50,000 made are unreliable. It could just be a bad batch.

I personally remember that my 95 Grand Prix was considered the most unreliable car GM has ever produced. I bought mine brand new and still have it 330,000 miles later with little, I mean very little, maintenance.
 

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Also, with so many great cars today, how do you decide who the "worst" is? It's not like the doors fall off. In any contest someone has to lose. So it might not be that bad of an issue, just ranked wose than the others.
 

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And I think they survey membeers, and not the general public? I was never a fan of CR, but today they have less value for car buyers than they ever had because there are other, more reliable surveys available. Personally, I don't buy cars based on others opinions.
 

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I got a survey from JD Powers this week about my Solstice. Three of the four pages was questions about problems. There was not a single page about what I thought was good, or great, about the car. I wasn't going to fill it out, but decided to do so just so there was one less negative survey sent back. It's no wonder you only read about bad surveys, they're written to only allow you to enter negative information.
 

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Ex-Miata Man said:
I got a survey from JD Powers this week about my Solstice. Three of the four pages was questions about problems. There was not a single page about what I thought was good, or great, about the car. I wasn't going to fill it out, but decided to do so just so there was one less negative survey sent back. It's no wonder you only read about bad surveys, they're written to only allow you to enter negative information.
Just like the classic question: "When did you stop beating your wife?" :lol:

Remember Mark Twain's observation:

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I tell my lab students, don't argue with the data, question the conclusions drawn.

--Chemist (moved up 2 spots at my dealer yesterday!)
 

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Ex-Miata Man said:
I got a survey from JD Powers this week about my Solstice. Three of the four pages was questions about problems. There was not a single page about what I thought was good, or great, about the car. I wasn't going to fill it out, but decided to do so just so there was one less negative survey sent back. It's no wonder you only read about bad surveys, they're written to only allow you to enter negative information.
Thanks for the info. Now a lot of things make sence about why these things turn out the way they do. :yesnod:
 

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I own a Cobalt and have had ZERO issues with it. I've put on 22,000 miles on mine since January. Besides lots of gas, and some oil changes... the only thing I've done to mine really is swap out the stereo (it was the base model). When I started pulling the interior apart I was rather impressed with how GM put this car together. Lots of little things were done to rid noises. All of my car friends who have ridden in the car are rather impressed (especially since this was the replacement for the crappy Cav).

I'm wondering know what problems people are having. I had a recall for a sensor related to the air bag deployment system, but I wasn't worried about that (it wasn't a failure to operate sort of problem).
 

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I don't know specifically what CR asks, but some of those surveys will rate a car poorly because of issues other than actual quality or reliability problems.

JD Powers "initial quality" study is good at this. When the Hummer H2 first came out, it scored near the bottom in initial quality. I am sure a lot of people must have thought it was a poorly build piece of junk. The main complaint JD Power received on it? Poor gas mileage. People didn't like getting poor mileage in them, so sent in negative survey responses dragging it down.

A similar thing happened when the Mini Cooper came out. It also rated near the bottom in this study. The killer complaint that was sent in? Poor cupholder design.

Neither car had an actual quality or reliability problem. But the study made thousands believe they did, simply because owners didn't like the gas mileage of their H2 (they must have been brain dead, who would expect good mileage in that thing!) or the cupholders in their Mini.

On top of all of that, CR has some built in biases of it's own with the way it surveys owners, which tend to favor imports.

Take any one study with a grain of salt.
 

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thank heavens for full warranty. also. this is a first year car.its also a true sportscar in the old school way. i dont expect this to be a serious contender in most reliable category. thats the price of almost any sportscar including the ferrari. this is another car that i will extend the warranty out for at least the length of payment. drive it like you stole it and keep a big warranty. dont forget to smile like hell too. :)
 

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I find this thread very ironic because if Consumers Report had said that the Solstice appears to be very reliable every one of us would be elated. I guess it all depends whose
Ox is being gored.
:yesnod:
 

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flaj said:
I find this thread very ironic because if Consumers Report had said that the Solstice appears to be very reliable every one of us would be elated. I guess it all depends whose
Ox is being gored.
:yesnod:
I still wouldn't read too much into it.
 

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mrfredsporty said:
thank heavens for full warranty. also. this is a first year car.its also a true sportscar in the old school way. i dont expect this to be a serious contender in most reliable category. thats the price of almost any sportscar including the ferrari. this is another car that i will extend the warranty out for at least the length of payment. drive it like you stole it and keep a big warranty. dont forget to smile like hell too. :)
:agree: I certainly hope I'm not at the dealer too much, but I plan on looking into a good extended warranty. Especially first year + know minor issue + domestic auto (sorry GM fans).
 

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flaj said:
I find this thread very ironic because if Consumers Report had said that the Solstice appears to be very reliable every one of us would be elated. I guess it all depends whose
Ox is being gored.
:yesnod:
Not me. I have never used CR to purchase anything, and I have never placed much stock in these surveys. CR has had an anti-domestic bias for years, and I think it's becasue a high percentage of their members are import owners. And actually it wasn't the Solstice that CR reported on one way or the other.
KYSol
I certainly hope I'm not at the dealer too much, but I plan on looking into a good extended warranty. Especially first year + know minor issue + domestic auto (sorry GM fans).
You need to get current. GM has gotten excellent ratings in most of these surveys in recent years concerning relibility, if these surveys mean anything to you. They don't to me because my experience has told me that GM cars have good reliability.
 

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I have one thing to say about the Ecotecs reliability. When John Lingenfelter was building the Ecotec powered car that he crashed at Pomona resulting in his death, he got 750 horsepower out of the engine with stock pistons, rods, and crankshaft. I doubt if the engine would live long on the dyno making that kind of power, but I don't think there is another 2000cc four cylinder economy motor built by anyone anywhere in the world that would live long enough to make 750 horsepower on a dyno using the stock rotating assembly!
 

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dealernut said:
One thing to consider also on the consumer report surveys is that they take a Survey from owners. Say 100 customers. Well if 50 of those customers have reliability problems does not mean that the 50,000 made are unreliable. It could just be a bad batch.

I personally remember that my 95 Grand Prix was considered the most unreliable car GM has ever produced. I bought mine brand new and still have it 330,000 miles later with little, I mean very little, maintenance.
If those 100 are selected from the general population and not from one or two batches, and half of them are unreliable, then yes, it could mean that half of the total are unreliable. It's called statistical sampling and accountants use it all the time in auditing financial statements.

Auditors select 60 to 100 sales invoices out of the let's say 100,000 total invoices. If 5 or 10 of those selected have errors, then we cannot say that the total invoices are reliable. We then have to perform other auditing procedures in order to reach an opinion.

In your example, SD, they would need to investigate many of those reports to determine first if there are extenuating circumstances, such as prior accidents which might cause other parts to fail. But it does give a good indication, at least.

This was more than anyone wanted to know, I'm sure. :leaving:

.
 

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Got this from another forum
Source: Consumer Reports 12/05

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars.htm

Here is a quick summary.

Testing of sports cars by Consumers Reports:

Test Results:

4th Place: Mitsubishi Eclipse
3rd Place: Toyota Scion Tc
2nd Place: Acura RSX
1st Place: Chevy Cobalt SS

they gave it a bad rating but it still came in first
 

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Consumer Reports are probably the least reliable tests or reports available on cars. Consumer Reports tests things on cars nobody care about. They will condemn car car just as badly for an a/c knob coming loose as total brake failure on a car if the problem is as frequent (I'm being a bit facetious here, but their complaints often don't make any sense.) I've seen them slam a car as not reccomended one month, change their opinion the next month, change it again a month later.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Russ Bellinis said:
I have one thing to say about the Ecotecs reliability. When John Lingenfelter was building the Ecotec powered car that he crashed at Pomona resulting in his death, he got 750 horsepower out of the engine with stock pistons, rods, and crankshaft. I doubt if the engine would live long on the dyno making that kind of power, but I don't think there is another 2000cc four cylinder economy motor built by anyone anywhere in the world that would live long enough to make 750 horsepower on a dyno using the stock rotating assembly!
Actually Toyota / Yamaha's 3SGTE built a decade earlier, 2.0 Liter, was used in many rally cars (originally came in the MR2 Turbo and Celica All Trac) that made 800hp. Toyota also made the 504E but that was a race engine from the ground up. Toyota won Pikes Peak many times with that engine.

http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/fastest.htm

They actually take out the 2JZ in the Supra Twin Turbo in Japan and replace it with the 3SGTE for better weight distriution. If you ever played Gran Turismo 3 and watch the intro the Supra they show has the 3SGTE engine in it ! :)

Toyota's Turbo engines of the 90's are almost godlike in their durability. They are used in a boat racing class in Japan as well. I hope GM's turbo 2.0 liter is as bulletproof as the 3SGTE Gen III (245 ps about 240 hp)

Toyota did the following with the engine to make it durable:
Iron Block
Piston Oil Squirters
Forged pistons/rods
Rich fuel map
MAP sensor

I think GM's Ecotech will be very similar minus the Iron Block.



http://www.toysport.com/Technical Information/toyota_twin_cam_article.htm
 
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