Pontiac Solstice Forum banner

Solstice: the new Fiero?

6K views 52 replies 21 participants last post by  Fformula88 
#1 ·
What do you guys think? Is all the hype about nothing, will the Solstice be quickly forgotten as another failed GM experiement?

I admit, I love the look, but am concerned about quality
 
#2 ·
jasonritledge said:
What do you guys think? Is all the hype about nothing, will the Solstice be quickly forgotten as another failed GM experiement?

I admit, I love the look, but am concerned about quality
What exactly concerns you about quality? GM is a very different company in 2005 than it was in 1983, and the Solstice was brought to production under very different circumstances with very different priorities and attention than the Fiero was in 1983.

To answer the simple other questions. The hype is well deserved. The Solstice is going to be a huge hit. It will not be seen as a failed experiment, but rather the turning point in how GM designs, engineers, and brings a car to production.

Besides the Fiero was not really a failed experiment either. The car was left for dead by a skeptical GM management team that wanted it dead. However, GM has been building Saturns for 15 years based on things they learned from doing the Fiero.
 
#3 ·
Ff88, I woul think by now you'd have a prepared response to this question, something in your clipboard you could just copy/paste in as the question comes up :lol: Maybe that's an idea for the future :cool:

How many times do you reckon this same question has been posted on this forum?
 
#4 ·
RODEO said:
Ff88, I woul think by now you'd have a prepared response to this question, something in your clipboard you could just copy/paste in as the question comes up :lol: Maybe that's an idea for the future :cool:

How many times do you reckon this same question has been posted on this forum?
I have a good response somewhere on the forum dealing with the differences in the developmental process between the two cars, and why that is significant in different they will turn out. However, I just too lazy to search for it right now. :lol: If the thread ends up warranting it, I'll either find it or just type it out again!

It comes up so much because the Solstice is attracting a lot of Fiero enthusiats.

GM had commissioned a number of Fiero roadsters back in the day too, one as early as 1984. They just decided never to build it. Considering the roadster market took off in 1989 when the Miata was introduced, GM's decision not to make the convertable Fiero looks to me like their biggest mistake with the Fiero. So in that respect, maybe the Solstice is just the Fiero that never was.




The other twist of irony is that my Fiero (really any Fiero that has been in the family) has been more reliable than any other GM vehicle I, or my family have owned since the 80's. Maybe that is why GM earned such a lousy reputation for quality.
 
#5 ·
jasonritledge said:
What do you guys think? Is all the hype about nothing, will the Solstice be quickly forgotten as another failed GM experiement?

I admit, I love the look, but am concerned about quality
The Solstice is going to be a blockbuster grand-slam hit. Whatever doomed the Fiero will be completely absent in the Sosltice experience. GM has its act together and the Sol is going to be a great car, until they design the "simple, pure fun" that Lutz demanded, out of it.

For the 1st Generation and maybe the 2nd (with the bigger trunk), it is going to be the "must have" sports car to own and that it is American only serves to heighten the experience.
 
#6 ·
Fformula88 said:
I have a good response somewhere on the forum dealing with the differences in the developmental process between the two cars, and why that is significant in different they will turn out. However, I just too lazy to search for it right now. :lol: If the thread ends up warranting it, I'll either find it or just type it out again!
You might want to bookmark that one if you find it, it'll save you time down the road :lol:

From what I've read here about the Fiero over the year plus I've been here, the Fiero gets a very bad rap. This happens to lots of cars, like how the mita is called a "chick car", just moronic stuff that people for some reason like to repeat. The Fiero had it's problems for sure, but it's overblown by far, at least that's what I've been reading for some time!
 
#8 ·
jasonritledge said:
What do you guys think? Is all the hype about nothing, will the Solstice be quickly forgotten as another failed GM experiement?

I admit, I love the look, but am concerned about quality
Good God, man! Snap out of it!

Seriously, Fformula88 is right. Heck, even my 1993 Z28 isn't half bad as far as build quality is concerned, and it's a Camaro.
 
#9 · (Edited)
jimbo said:
The Solstice is going to be a blockbuster grand-slam hit.
Unfortunately so was the Fiero initially! They sold over 25,000 more Fieros in it's first model year than they had anticipated (total sold was over 100,000)! That difference is more than the total number of Solstice's that will even be made! :eek:

Of the many factors that influenced the fall of the Fiero, one of the more important was it's quality reputation. Part of that bad reputation was gained from letting the car go to production, and into the hands of owners before all of the bugs were worked out of the car. So early build cars had a bunch of little build quality problems, and the car was forever known as "junk."

Then people wonder why Pontiac doesn't just release the Solstice now, and fix all the problems on the fly, instead of holding back production while they work the issues out. :rolleyes:
 
#10 ·
Fformula88 said:
Unfortunately so was the Fiero initially! They sold over 25,000 more Fieros in it's first model year than they had anticipated (total sold was over 100,000)! That difference is more than the total number of Solstice's that will even be made! :eek:
Scary thought, from grand slam, to slammed for life :brentil:
 
#11 ·
RODEO said:
Scary thought, from grand slam, to slammed for life :brentil:
There is a lot of irony in the details. Some of what killed the Fiero was highly political at GM. The Fiero made GM a profit every year. So it wasn't a money loser for them. In its 5th model year (1988) they sold only 26,000 Fieros. That looks bad compared to the 100,000 first year sales, but considering that is still more than the Solstice's projected sales it doesn't look as bad.
 
#12 ·
Fformula88 said:
Considering the roadster market took off in 1989 when the Miata was introduced, GM's decision not to make the convertible Fiero looks to me like their biggest mistake with the Fiero.
There is much more to being a success in the Roadster market than just being a two seat convertible.

A few modern two seaters that didn't make it:

Mercury Capri
Honda Del Sol
Toyota MR2 Spyder
 
#13 ·
Fformula88 said:
Unfortunately so was the Fiero initially!
Oh, don't you know it! I wanted a Fiero so badly that I had 2 copies of every Magazine that did a review or road test - one copy to drool on and one to put away and save.

Then I read about how bad the initial cars were. Then the restyled the front end in a way I didn't like. Then I lost interest and next thing you know, they dropped the mode. I felt so betrayed that the 1st dream car I found since my 1968 Mustang GT/CS was not worth owning.
 
#14 · (Edited)
LBJay said:
There is much more to being a success in the Roadster market than just being a two seat convertible.

A few modern two seaters that didn't make it:

Mercury Capri
Honda Del Sol
Toyota MR2 Spyder
Sure there is more. However, we will never know whether the Fiero would have made it or not. It was RWD unlike the Del Sol, had trunk space unlike the MR2 Spyder. Not sure what the biggest knock was on the Capri.

The 1990 redesign was a knockout looker too. It certainly would have turned heads!

Although these are not the best pictures of the 1990 prototype, they are the best I could find quickly... http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/photos/VEC/90/90.html

(yes, that is a DOHC V6 under the hood, er, trunk too!)
 
#15 ·
Fformula88 said:
Not sure what the biggest knock was on the Capri.
Oh, oh, oh, mista Kotta mista Kotta! I know that one, because it was built by Ford right? LOL Sorry Ford fans, cheap shot I know.

BTW, Ff what was the msrp on the Fiero in 84 and then at it's demise. I loved it when it came out, though that didn't last too long. I do still like the final GT models, but I remember them being significantly higher priced then the car started at or am I wrong?
 
#16 ·
Fformula88 said:
Sure there is more. However, we will never know whether the Fiero would have made it or not. It was RWD unlike the Del Sol, had trunk space unlike the MR2 Spyder. Not sure what the biggest knock was on the Capri.

The 1990 redesign was a knockout looker too. It certainly would have turned heads!

Although these are not the best pictures of the 1990 prototype, they are the best I could find quickly... http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/photos/VEC/90/90.html

(yes, that is a DOHC V6 under the hood, er, trunk too!)
That looks like a Ford Probe "got jiggy" with a 240sx...
 
#17 · (Edited)
MO-KAN SHO said:
That looks like a Ford Probe "got jiggy" with a 240sx...
That is what I thought at first, then I did a second look and realized that it looks just like a Firebird. Why have two cars that look so similar in the product line?

I thought about a Fiero, but there was always that rumor of a "V8 next year" so I waited. No V8 and then no Fiero. Bought a 89 Honda CRX instead.

The rumors and desire for a larger engine is what scares me about the Solstice. No matter what size engine GM puts in there cars, the American public always thinks that they are just holding back on the "real" engine.
 
#18 ·
It was the era of poorly built cars . . .

Anyone who has watched the progression of American built cars over the past 40 years knows that at the time the Fiero was built, most American cars were poorly built, which gave rise to the influx of the Japanese cars which, at the time, were better built.

This is the next century, bucko, wake up and smell the engineering. American cars as good as any built on the planet right now (with the possble exception of Toyota and Lexus), and you can look forward to the Solstice as being a major hit in not only the US market, but it will be hot around the world within 24 months, if they elect to export it (see Opel).

If you fear the quality, then wait and miss the years of driving fun in this car. As for me and my family, we will get one of the first 1000 and have a ball. :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
#21 ·
Fformula88 said:
Sure there is more. However, we will never know whether the Fiero would have made it or not. It was RWD unlike the Del Sol, had trunk space unlike the MR2 Spyder. Not sure what the biggest knock was on the Capri.

Being probably the only Capri owner here..(ducking). I think I can tell you what they did wrong.

1) They did a "me too" Miata. Didn't bother to make anything better.
The engine is even a Mazda product. Same engine as the 323 of that generation. The turbo helped... even gave it more HP than the Miata of that day.

2). They didn't offer the right accessories. No leather seats as an example.

3). It was a car made by a committee. Design from Italy, parts from Mazda, built in Australia. Include the fact that the design was about 4 yrs old when they finally got around to making the car.

I really wanted to get a Miata back then.... but then I sat in it. I just couldn't cope with my head hitting the roof on every bump and pot-hole wannabee or ducking so I could see under the top of the windshield. Miata really missed the boat on that one I think. They designed for the most common height, but didn't consider that there are a lot of us out here that are a few inches over that average.

One thing I can say is that after putting 220,000 miles on the car, it still runs great and measures over 140 psi on the compression check. Sure, I've got the rattles and creaks and a few things have broken, but it just showed signs of rust this yr.

I'm probably going to clean the car up some and then donate it to my grandson. I'd bet he'll get another 5 yrs or more out of it. All in all I'll never be sorry for my investment.
 
#22 ·
RODEO said:
Speculation, or news that I've missed?
The inevitability from all the complaints of those who will say they would have bought one if it only had a bigger trunk. To be sure, the designers will want to make the trunk bigger, as they should. I just hope they do it with creative fuel tank design and not by making the car itself bigger and heavier.
 
#23 ·
jimbo said:
The inevitability from all the complaints of those who will say they would have bought one if it only had a bigger trunk. To be sure, the designers will want to make the trunk bigger, as they should. I just hope they do it with creative fuel tank design and not by making the car itself bigger and heavier.

:thumbs: That's what I figured, but you never know what you might have missed around here!
 
#24 ·
You’re not alone package

package said:
Being probably the only Capri owner here..(ducking). I think I can tell you what they did wrong.
My current car is a 91 Capri XR2. I have found it to be a wonderful and extremely reliable car despite tons of press (and owner testament) to the contrary.

When I relocated to DC form Los Angeles, I actually thought I could do the “city thing” and do without a car. I barely got through the second weekend and I knew I could never be without an automobile. Just knowing I didn’t have a car at hand made me crazy not to mention I truly love to drive.

A co-worker was a new father and said he was selling his wife’s car so they could get something more practical and he asked if I was interested in buying their Capri. I knew about the Capri and said yuck, that is a total chick car. Well he asked me to go out to lunch one day and there was the Capri, top down and ready to go. He tossed me the keys and the rest was history. It was my first time at the wheel of a convertible and I instantly fell in love with open air driving. The car is roomy enough and has a decent trunk, the sole aspect of the Solstice that is not completely positive for me. It was inexpensive and immediately available. While I bought it on impulse and thrill of a convertible, I never dreamed I would thoroughly enjoy it as much as I have or kept it so long; and, I still think it is a chick car…

I agree the Capri is an awkward vehicle, both in design, aesthetics and ergonomics but again I have been thrilled with it since day one. I expect the Solstice to be the perfect non-chick car next step! :)

Oh, and interestingly enough the Capri, built and sold in Australia for several years, had a delayed US launch due to the then newly legislated airbag mandate. Some say the delay to add the airbag left the Miata alone in the spotlight with the Capri arriving to the US market more than a year later than planned.
 
#25 ·
tmpafford said:
That is what I thought at first, then I did a second look and realized that it looks just like a Firebird. Why have two cars that look so similar in the product line?
I agree that it looks like the 93+ Firebird. Hmm, where might they have gotten the 93+ Firebird design? Could this be it?

Seriously, this is a running prototype, supposedly close to final spec, that was built and ready to go in 1989, well before the redesigned F-bodies bowed.

In fact, it was originally silver. When they cancelled the Fiero, they painted it red, attached a Firebird GTA emblem to the front, and tried to pass it off as a Firebird concept. I don't know for certain, but the 93+ Firebirds may have received some design inspiration from that car. It certainly looks like it.
 
#26 ·
Fformula88 said:
In its 5th model year (1988) they sold only 26,000 Fieros.
As I recall, the final year was actually a very good car. By that time all the bugs were worked out. My sister had a GT and except for driving in the snow, she loved the car. The rear engine did present some maintenance problems, though.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top