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Discussion Starter #1
I am interested in hearing what the membership feels about supercharge vs. turbocharge. In 1979, I installed a turbo (non intercooled) in a 1977 Datsun (Nissan) 280Z. While there was great power, there were issues of turbo lag and underhood temperature. Turbo power is not "free" as there is increased exhaust back pressure. The car ran well for five years. The guy I sold it to blew the head gasket within 3 months. I drove a Mercedes C240 with a supercharger and it also performed very well. The supercharger seems to have the advantage of quicker power, lower under hood temperatures, and better control of boost through gearing and pulley size. Any thoughts?
 

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I'd agree that you wouldn't want a non intercooled turbo. I've been driving a turbo car for about 14 yrs and haven't had any issues with it whatsoever. When the turbo is in the boost mode I'd agree that there is additional backpressure, but when the waste gate is closed I'm not sure it taxes the exhaust system all that much. You certainly don't get off the line as good as you would with a super charger, but it does pull away well once the rpm's get up a bit.

The supercharger does give boost right off the bat, but when you're not using it you still have a lot of spinning components that are dragging on the system at all times. I'd guess the gas mileage would be better with the turbo and the acceleration better with the supercharger...
 

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This has been a hotly debated debate on these forums, and I believe it will continue for some time. There are some advantages and disadvantages to both methods of forced induction.

As far as reliability concerns, I think the industry has gotten far better with turbo engines, and it is an area where GM has a wealth of engineering and on road experience with turbos, and turbos on ecotec engines. The engineering comes from Saab, who has been using turbos a long time, and uses turbo ecotec motors in their 9-3 sedans. GM's Opel division in Europe also uses a number of turbo ecotec derrivatives. So although no traditional GM brand is using turbos in North America at the moment, turbocharging the ecotec also is not a new thing for GM.

Modern turbo engines should easily run into 6 digits in mileage without any problems. Maybe someone with experience with Saab could comment on how long the 9-3 Aero's high output turbo is holding up to high mileage.

On the turbo lag end of it, the lag can be minimized and almost eliminated with the right choice of turbo. The lag generally comes in (roughly) when a turbo is really too big for it's application. Therefore, the engine at idle isn't close to spooling up the turbo. It pays off in the upper RPM range with more high end power, but moving off the line without a high RPM launch can be labored. On the flip side, a moderately sized turbo can minimize the lag and still keep some decent high end kick. Its still not the same as a supercharger, but that isn't necessarily a negative either.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the power curve of this turbo engine is before we have a better idea of what kind of lag it might suffer. Since GM also has supercharged ecotecs, I doubt they would flip to turbos on the Solstice if they didn't have some beneficial reasons to.
 

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will a turbocharger hurt my low end torque?

It won't bother be if the turbo doesn't get off the line any faster than the base engine, but if the turbo actually takes longer to get off the line, I'll keep the base engine and sacrifice HP to keep my torque.

Anybody know?
 

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Liam1694u said:
will a turbocharger hurt my low end torque?

It won't bother be if the turbo doesn't get off the line any faster than the base engine, but if the turbo actually takes longer to get off the line, I'll keep the base engine and sacrifice HP to keep my torque.

Anybody know?
That could depend on the engine and displacement. Overall, the turbo will increase torque. However, it doesn't create as much power right off the line. Keep in mind that is based on a launch from idle too. You can also give it a few thousand revs and launch it with the turbo spooled, and it should rocket away. If done correctly, it also wouldn't be overly harsh on your driveline. If done incorrectly, you better get friendly with a transmission shop! :)
 

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Fformula88 said:
That could depend on the engine and displacement. Overall, the turbo will increase torque. However, it doesn't create as much power right off the line. Keep in mind that is based on a launch from idle too. You can also give it a few thousand revs and launch it with the turbo spooled, and it should rocket away. If done correctly, it also wouldn't be overly harsh on your driveline. If done incorrectly, you better get friendly with a transmission shop! :)
I know my turbo wouldn't kick in from just revving....I had to add load to the engine as well... probably something in the ECU.
 

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Turbos have come a long way since 1977 buddy.

So you have (3) 02 LS1 6-speed Camaros lined up out in the middle of nowhere (closed course :)). 1st car is stock; second had a Procharger running 7 psi, 3rd has STS turbo at 5 PSI.

Cars take off, stock car pulls hard off the line by about 1/2 a car length. STS car pulls out at 3,000 RPMS and pulls 3 car lengths on both cars. Procharger starts to pull the same rate as the STS car at about 5,000 RPMS. From there on STS slightly pulls on the Procharger car up until about 120 when at the finish line the STS car is about 6 car lengths ahead of the Procharger car and the stock car is back about 8 car lengths behind the Procharger car.

Q. Why did the Procharger car and STS Car beat the stock car? A. They had an extra 100 horsepower.

Q. Why did the Turbo car beat the supercharged car? A. The Turbo car had more torque and a flat torque curve all the way to redline. The turbo car created full boost at 3,000 RPMS while the supercharger hit full boost at about 4500 RPMS.

Well what about roots type S/Cs? Well, most are notorious for creating heat and so the motor has to pull timing which kills horsepower. The Eaton/Magnuson Pontiac GTOs are notorious for only picking about 3 tenths in the 1/4 mile due to heat soak.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Supercharger availablility

I have contacted RSM Racing, Vortech and ProCharger with regard to their offering Supercharger kits for the Solstice. At this time, Vortech and ProCharger indicated that they have no plans to offer a kit. RSM Racing has indicated that they plan to offer a full kit as soon as they get their Solstice froM GM "probably by the end of September." :)
RSM Racing Supercharger kits for exisiting ECOTEC engines appear to run about $3500 for the complete kit. "Nothing else to buy." Looks like a viable option in the near term.
 

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For the money just get the high powered Turbo Solstice due out next year. You'll get a built motor all ready for a turbo upgrade.

Remember:
Turbo Grand National (really fast car)
 

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package said:
I know my turbo wouldn't kick in from just revving....I had to add load to the engine as well... probably something in the ECU.
Maybe it was. I haven't heard of that problem before. I assume that was on the Capri in your profile.

I know the Subaru WRX's respond very well to revving before launching them. It is the secret in getting those mid 5 second 0-60 times. Just launching from idle adds a lot of time to the blast from the lag.
 

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Fformula88 said:
Maybe it was. I haven't heard of that problem before. I assume that was on the Capri in your profile.

I know the Subaru WRX's respond very well to revving before launching them. It is the secret in getting those mid 5 second 0-60 times. Just launching from idle adds a lot of time to the blast from the lag.
:agree:

My Mazda 323GTX was the same. (Not that fast, though.)

All of this turbo talk has me missing that car in a serious way.....
 

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Let me ask this. You guys seem to be pro Turbo. So in your opinion why would anyone ever want to buy a Supercharger?
 

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SlipSlider said:
Let me ask this. You guys seem to be pro Turbo. So in your opinion why would anyone ever want to buy a Supercharger?
I'd actually prefer a supercharger myself, but I don't mind the turbo either.
 

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Fformula88 said:
I'd actually prefer a supercharger myself, but I don't mind the turbo either.
As long as it's designed properly. I've driven some Turbocharged cars that just plain sucked.

I personally would have also prefered Supercharged, but I understand why they went Turbocharged. In general you can get higher values from it, it's far more popular buzz word then Supercharger, and GM has far more experience doing Turbocharger work on ECOTECs then Superchargers.
 

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Fformula88 said:
I'd actually prefer a supercharger myself, but I don't mind the turbo either.
:agree:
i would like to have the non-lag of the SC as well as the lower operating heat. i would really be ok with either as long as its done well. seriousely, if anyone really wants the F/I, they will learn really quick how to best drive it to get its full potential. no worries for me.
 

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I've always preferred a SuperCharger over a Turbo.

At this point, I don't really think any one particular one is better... since both types have had serious R&D on them since people first started using them.

But on a SuperCharger, lag is never an issue off idle, and your exhaust system never becomes an issue.

I also prefer the sound of a chambered exhaust over that of a car that has a turbo...

Just personal preference I suppose...
 

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What about high boost situations? Like 20 or 30 psi? How many horsepower does the belt on a supercharger have to handle with that much boost?
 

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My impression is that a supercharger might not have the lag, but to spin it quickly enough to get good hp & torque at low rpms you sacrifice maximum power because the blower gets spinning too fast to be efficient.
 
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