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Discussion Starter #1
I went looking at the S2000 the other day and i must say that the 2004 model looks really nice. The new wheels and new front and rear really complement it. Now i like the Solstice a lot but the 170hp is worrying me and i want a car no later than next summer.
Also for the money, when the higher HP version of the Solstice comes out it will surley be over 25k and i can get the S2000 for 30k. I'm more sure the S will have higher reliablity too, i own a GM now and its ok, no major problems, but they are all starting to develop. I know all cars have problems but the solstice will be a brand new car and even the S2000 had a few bugs they had to work out with the top and a grinding in 2nd gear.


So, back up this Solstice for me please!
 

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If you can get the S2000 for 30 grand..

Go for it. Its a fine sports car..

Sounds like a good choice.

Good luck

JB
 

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Consider that most of the S2000's power is made between 6000 and 8500 RPM. How often would it be practical to rev it to that range on the roads that you drive? That and the digital tach are the only two issues I have with the car.

If you get the Speed Channel on your cable or satellite system, check out a show called 5th Gear on the morning of November 20th. They rated the S2000 against a number of other roadsters. If you do decide to get the S2000, you might get the best price during the dead of winter.
 

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I was going to mention high revs of S2000 too. Extra money is other big factor. Styling depends on your preference, but it looks a little Miata-ish for me.

But on the plus side it is a hell of a car overall :devil
 

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I was looking very seriously at a 2K, but when I found out about the Solstice, I backed out.

I did it the old fashioned way, Money. 2K was $34K USD (includes taxes), Solstice $22K (includes taxes)***Difference is $1000.00 USD per month for one year!!

I can wait for the US built Solstice. :cheers

Steve

Still driving my old British Roadster since '68
 

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Go with your heart. If driving a non-American vehicle is your preference, so be it; besides, that will leave us Solstice buyers with another chance to get one next year.
 

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JohnnyBoy said:
So, back up this Solstice for me please!
Let me put it this way. If you do not get what you want, your not going to be happy and in a year or two you will be looking to trade for another car anyway. So get the car you feel the most passionate about.

Also, in all fairness to the Solstice, this is not the fairest comparison. You are comparing a $20K roadster with a $34K roadster, and then complaining that the Solstice has less horsepower. Then, you are speculating on the sticker price of a higher output Solstice and comparing that to a discounted price on the S2000. Even if it is $25K for a boosted Solstice, that is still nearly, $10K below the price of an S2000. If you want to compare out the door prices of the two, you will need to wait to see what a Solstice goes for, and I bet it is less than MSRP after the initial rush.

Finally, your assuming the reliability of a Solstice, a car that has not even rolled out of a factory yet, will be significantly lower than the S2000. Its an assumption based on some GM history, but not necessarily indicative of the two products at hand. Its also an assumption on Honda history, which doesn’t always hold true for all models (I have seen some complaints of problems with S2000’s).

Here is an objective comparison. The Solstice will have 170 HP and not be as fast as an S2000 if you flog the S2000. However, if you drive the Honda like you own it, you may find it isn’t all that much faster in daily driving. It doesn’t have a ton of torque and not much power down low in the power band. Countless owners have sold their S2000’s disappointed at the cars performance, because you cannot really reach its power band in normal driving. It’s a fabulous car on the track, but it seems a lot of people wanting more on the street. Now if the engine characteristics are not a problem for you its no big deal. Honda parts are expensive, so you may also be in for higher repair costs.

What really matters, the driving experience of these two, simply cannot be compared right now. No one can say if the Solstice will feel slower, handle better or worse, etc than an S2000 at this point. So its really hard to compare.

If you like the S2000 and are perfectly happy with it, go for it. However, if you think your going to suffer buyers remorse in 9 months when Solstices hit the streets, you may want to at least wait on your purchase decision until you can drive both and make compare them.
 

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As the Solstice will get essentially the same transmission as the S2000, tell me more about the "grinding in 2nd gear".

The Honda is an excellent car, but it has significant differences between it and the Solstice that will be offered next summer. Most notably the price and peak horsepower. But in day to day driving, that power disparity is less noticable than the numbers suggest because most of the time your shifting at around 3500-4500 RPM. It's in that range that they're a lot closer. When the Solstice comes out with the forced induction engine (discussion on supercharger or turbo), because of the higher torque at lower RPMs and similar peak HP at a lower RPM, most predictions have it being significantly faster feeling than the S2000. There's a possiblity that you will rule the road until then, but after that, regret not waiting and buying the faster car for less.

As far as Honda's reputation for reliability, I drive a '92 Civic SI with over 210,000 miles. At 75,000 miles (while on vacation) the bearings on the distributor went out and had to be replaced. Installed myself in a campground but cost $275 parts. Dealer's parts counter said I was lucky 'cuz they just got some in and couldn't keep them in stock. At 110,000, starter quit a work, push start home and replaced in driveway, $280 parts. At 130,000, ignitor (spark diode) quit on way to work, cost $130 parts plus new coil for $180 plus towing. But I've had no trouble with the tranny or motor, other than it no longer shifts to VTEC mode (can't figure out why). I feeling is Honda's reputation is good but not perfect. But the price of parts is ridiculous.
 

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If you like driving everywhere in 2nd or 3rd gear then go with the S2000 :D

It's the same way with the Lotus Elise and any other car using the 2ZZ engine that religh heavily on variable cam technology. You'll get decent power below the cam shift, but you wont have your real power until you've hit your rev requirment. So if you want to garunatee power you'd have to pretty much drive everywhere in a lower gear keeping the revs up so you're in the shifted profile already. To race an Elise or an Exige based off the 2ZZ you have to be extremely careful to never let your revs drop below the magic 5800 RPM, otherwise you're going to loose power while you work your way back into that range. Which means you'll be consuming more gas then normal keeping the car on the lower gear to keep the revs up.

The Solstice will have it's max power (all be it less power) available in the rev band below the profile change of the S2000. Perosonally I'm hoping for a Supercharger option on the Solstice because I want quickly available low down power for auto crossing. A small quick spooling Torbocharger would work nicely too.
 

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brentil said:
If you like driving everywhere in 2nd or 3rd gear then go with the S2000 :D

It's the same way with the Lotus Elise and any other car using the 2ZZ engine that religh heavily on variable cam technology. You'll get decent power below the cam shift, but you wont have your real power until you've hit your rev requirment. So if you want to garunatee power you'd have to pretty much drive everywhere in a lower gear keeping the revs up so you're in the shifted profile already. To race an Elise or an Exige based off the 2ZZ you have to be extremely careful to never let your revs drop below the magic 5800 RPM, otherwise you're going to loose power while you work your way back into that range. Which means you'll be consuming more gas then normal keeping the car on the lower gear to keep the revs up.

The Solstice will have it's max power (all be it less power) available in the rev band below the profile change of the S2000. Perosonally I'm hoping for a Supercharger option on the Solstice because I want quickly available low down power for auto crossing. A small quick spooling Torbocharger would work nicely too.
Isn't the Solstice going to have a VVT-equipped ecotech? I'm almost certain it will. It won't be a 10,000 RPM sewing machine, but your VVT argument doesn't hold much water, here... just to play devil's advocate.
 

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2KWK4U said:
Isn't the Solstice going to have a VVT-equipped ecotech? I'm almost certain it will. It won't be a 10,000 RPM sewing machine, but your VVT argument doesn't hold much water, here... just to play devil's advocate.
There's a major difference between an engine that has variable technology and an engine that relies heavily on variable technology. Like I said "Lotus Elise and any other car using the 2ZZ engine that religh heavily on variable cam technology." My ZX2 uses VCT, and there's no real notice when it switches over. Same with the new Mustang that uses variable technology also. It's a massive V8 engine that uses it for extra power and fuel economy, not it's main source of power. Engines like the 2ZZ and the S2000 engine would be fairly powerless without their variable technology. For example the 1ZZ engine the 2ZZ is based off (in the Matrix, Carolla, Celica GT, and MR2) produces a whopping 138 HP, compared to the 190 HP the 2ZZ outputs in the Lotus Elise on a 1.8L engine. The Solstice engine is an evolution of the 2.2L ECOTEC, we're going from 140 HP 2.2L non variable technology to 170 HP 2.4L variable technology and gaining only 30 HP, which a majority of that is from the displacement gain more then likely and not the variable technology. A lot of people refer to the switch over almost like it's turbo boost kicking in. You'll feel the power change, and you wont have all the power available unless you stay in the cam change. More then likely with the ECOTEC it'll be more like my ZX2 and you'll never really notice the change, and you'll be able to very the revs more without fear of loosing the cam profile.
 

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I agree and well said. Where GM just advances the cam slightly at higher revs, Honda and Toyota actually change the cam profile for increased lift and duration. As the revs climb, you can feel it kick in from the passenger seat.
 

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually trying to talk you out of the S2000. I'm just making sure you are informaed about what you're looking to buy. If you're the type of person who loves to keep it in 2nd/3rd gear and maintain a rev above 4000rpm then the S2000 would really be your car. You should really test drive one, and then test drive an MR2 Spyder. The MR2 will be a lot closer to the Solstice then the S2000 will. It has less power then the Solstice but it weighs a couple hundred pounds less too. It's not the best comparison, but it'll help you compare the difference between a roadster powered by variable technology, and one tat's not. The Miata might be a good test too.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
All very good points on the S2000. I really wont be able to make a decision like this until i drive, see and fit into a Solstice. I love the styling of both roadsters but i would like more power than the Solstice has stock so if i go with the Solstice i am sticking around until the higher HP version comes out. I have a source where i can get an S for 30k and some change but i'm sure i can negociate the Solstice down in price too. So overall i would imagine there being a 5k difference between the two cars when i'm done. I will have to get the Solstice loaded, i'm just that way. The S comes one way, which has leather and other things..not any options and its pretty basic as far as features. The engine is impressive on the S2000, the sound and feel in the high rpm range is great. The low end is a little weak but its ok.

Is the S2000 a little bigger than the Solstice?

The grinding in second gear issuse with the S2000 happened to models 2002 and before to my understanding. I dont know what caused it or what fixed it, but i do know that the S2000's transmission will not hold much more power than it has stock and with the engine the only real way to gain power is through Forced Induction.
 

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Yeah, we're getting a transmission made by Asin, which doesn't necisarily mean it's the same as in the S2000, just made by the same company. So hopefully whatever issues they've had with past roadster transmissions they've worked out in their designs by now.
 

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most likely the 2.4 wont have "vtech" variable cam, but it will be there just for emissions like most vehicles out minus said performance cars... save and get the solstice with boost!!!

both are nice cars, and great points were made, but i say it comes down to styling, which is always subjective to the buyer, and in my opinion, the sostice is MUCH nicer looking that the S2000, and there will be way less on the road
 

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JB; I too wanted an S2000 since it was a new model in 00. My first issue was the plastic rear window which was changed to glass in MY 02. The second reason was the "market value scalding" dealers were adding to the bottom line. I almost bought an 02, but the second gear issue was still a problem to many owners and there was a dirty little secret about a short block oil starvation problem that several owners experienced and had to have the short block replaced and in the hands of "ham fisted" techs. for long periods of time. While the cars waited on parts many owners cars suffered mild body damage that dealers claimed they were not responsible for. I must say in all fairness that the above issues may have only happened to a few owners, but you need to know about them. Additionally there were power window (power down) issues, rear diff. issues and a few other small issues that all conspired to make me look elsewhere for a ride. I must also say that many of the above issues may have been caused by hard spirited driving as well, but that's why folks buy cars like this is it not? My advice to you is to wait until we see what Mr. Lutz & Co. offers up and then decide which car is best suited for you. Good luck!
 

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Chip said:
JB; I too wanted an S2000 since it was a new model in 00. My first issue was the plastic rear window which was changed to glass in MY 02. The second reason was the "market value scalding" dealers were adding to the bottom line. I almost bought an 02, but the second gear issue was still a problem to many owners and there was a dirty little secret about a short block oil starvation problem that several owners experienced and had to have the short block replaced and in the hands of "ham fisted" techs. for long periods of time. While the cars waited on parts many owners cars suffered mild body damage that dealers claimed they were not responsible for. I must say in all fairness that the above issues may have only happened to a few owners, but you need to know about them. Additionally there were power window (power down) issues, rear diff. issues and a few other small issues that all conspired to make me look elsewhere for a ride. I must also say that many of the above issues may have been caused by hard spirited driving as well, but that's why folks buy cars like this is it not? My advice to you is to wait until we see what Mr. Lutz & Co. offers up and then decide which car is best suited for you. Good luck!
What often happens with problems is that those people who get them become outspoken, and it seems like an epidemic because they are all that people talk about. People usually do not carry on all the time about their car when it is working well.

Now, that doesn’t mean some of those problems were not wide spread. The 2nd gear problem was legit on those cars. However, I doubt body damage suffered at the dealer is a widespread problem at all Honda outlets. I suspect one or a couple dealers may not have taken good care of a couple cars resulting in some scratches, or door dings or whatever. Still inexcusable, but things happen.

Still, some of those other problems are worth checking into as well. Its amazing, all those problems with bullet-proof Hondas. Amazing! :lol
 

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I don't mean to be rude,

but go for it and do it just before the Solstice is on the lots.
You would be one less guy in line behind me at Solstice garage.

:jester

Sorry I'm only kidding of course. We each measure value in our own way, driving an S2000 for an extra six to ten months is a very attractive alteritive.

Good luck on your decision
 
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