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Discussion Starter #1
I know that a lot of people out there are one-sided on the issue of Manual vs. Automatic for a roadster, but I was wondering what people thought about a tap-shift.

Pontiac offers it in both the Grand-Prix and the G6. So, do you think that when the Automatic does come out it might eventually be available on the Solstice.

I prefer the Autostick on the floor over the tap-shift on the steering wheel.

It would fit a roadster. I know that the Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder comes with an Autostick as well.

What do you guys think?
 

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I would prefer tab-shift over autostick. I would definitely get that as an option if available.
Havent driven a tab-shift (they didnt put it on my Bonneville GXP and Im mad about that), but driving an auto-stick made me think I would just rather have a manual for performance or an auto to save my bad left knee.
 

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My opinion… I don’t know. I have not had much seat time in either type of automatic. It will be interesting to see what people’s opinions are. I think I’d rather it be a tap shift on the floor to more closely mimick a manual, but I’d have to drive both to be certain.

[moderators note: There is a similar thread regarding the merits of having an automatic equipped Solstice ongoing here: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2180 if anyone is interested.]
 

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I, myself, don't like tap-shift. Haven't been in one that I like. The closest one was a brief period in a SMG BMW Z4, but even that was a bit clunky (but very kool).

Almost every tap-shift or auto-shift automatic trans I've been in is like having an automatic trans and me feeling like I'm just moving the gearshift from D to 3 to 2 to 1 - and it ends up overriding me anyway. Maybe it has to do with never really having a "neutral" position, but I really think they are a waste of time (for ME, ok?).
 

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solsticeman said:
I, myself, don't like tap-shift. Haven't been in one that I like. The closest one was a brief period in a SMG BMW Z4, but even that was a bit clunky (but very kool).

Almost every tap-shift or auto-shift automatic trans I've been in is like having an automatic trans and me feeling like I'm just moving the gearshift from D to 3 to 2 to 1 - and it ends up overriding me anyway. Maybe it has to do with never really having a "neutral" position, but I really think they are a waste of time (for ME, ok?).
:agree: :agree: :agree:
 

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I think the point of a stick shift is to maintain control over your driving experience.
Has anybody out there ever been able to shift into gear without depressing the clutch? It's like trying to find the holy grail.
 

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Let's get real...

Tap shift was designed for people who felt guilty for buying a "sports car" with an automatic. It is not going to improve the performance of the vehicle, and it is designed to not let you screw up (you can't force it into 1st at 60 mph!!!) Besides, you can control when the vehicle shifts very nicely by flooring it!!!
I think we have to realize, that while very peppy, this car is not a powerhouse, and if you are buying it for the styling, handling and convertible feel, there is nothing wrong with getting an automatic. I own a delivery business in addition to selling at Pontiac, and I will be getting an automatic for the sheer convenience. (Manuals are a pain in town-stop and go driving)
 

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solli4me said:
I think the point of a stick shift is to maintain control over your driving experience.
Has anybody out there ever been able to shift into gear without depressing the clutch? It's like trying to find the holy grail.
I do it all the time - 'cause I'm lazy (ooohhhhh the effort of pushing that clutch...).

It's all about timing and finesse. Less so if you don't care about your synchros :lol:
 

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Been a while

The last car I power shifted was my 67 GTO w/4 speed. When I got rid of it I don't think there was any clutch left in it, and I know the tires were gone. Rotated them every 3000 and wore them out in 25000. Power shifting a 389 will do that to tires. :lol: :cool:
 

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Gopherman said:
Tap shift was designed for people who felt guilty for buying a "sports car" with an automatic. It is not going to improve the performance of the vehicle, and it is designed to not let you screw up (you can't force it into 1st at 60 mph!!!) Besides, you can control when the vehicle shifts very nicely by flooring it!!!
I think we have to realize, that while very peppy, this car is not a powerhouse, and if you are buying it for the styling, handling and convertible feel, there is nothing wrong with getting an automatic. I own a delivery business in addition to selling at Pontiac, and I will be getting an automatic for the sheer convenience. (Manuals are a pain in town-stop and go driving)
This is NOT the reason Tap **** / Autostick / Tip-tronic / (insert trade name here) was created. There are changes going on in transmissions which have lead to design changes in shifters.

Getrag is working on a new transmission in which there are two input shafts constantly spun up at speed. One used for 1,3,5 and the other for 2,4,6 (if it's a 6 speed). Advantage, no clutch needed... not at all. Pull the lever back and let it go... no power off / disengage clutch / shift / engage clutch / power on... instead, power on / shift / power on.

Problem is that most consumers can't make the switch from a normal automatic / manual to something like this... and neither can the technology change as quick. Instead the Tap Shift / Autostick / Tip-tronic / etc... all have lead to electronic transmissions (instead of cable based).

Lots of changes are done this way in different designs... you make a small change, understand it's impact, and work on the next one. You're just seeing the evolution of purely mechanical based transmission over to semi-electrical controled, to totally electrically controlled.

Gas pedals have undergone the same technology shift in automotive applications (hevy industry equipement actually leads the automotive companies in new technology by about 5-10 years) recently. Brakes will be going to "brake by wire" over the next 5-7, and the transmissions are going to be there even quicker. GM is using this same sort of technology in their "power steering" (not that I like the feel of the electronicaly controlled system, but they have it) systems now.

Automanufactures (worldwide) have been working on new voltage specifications to take cars from 12 V to 36/48/+ V systems... unfortunately world wide the companies can't agree and we will most likely end up with problems. With all of the electrical systems in cars (DVD's, Navigation, power everything, lights, etc.) and with the advancements for computer controlled items... more power is needed.

Way off topic now... sorry, I'll get off the soap box.

But... back to the point... I doubt you'll see any system like this in the Solstice, as it's going to take a transmission change to pull it off... lots of testing, cost to get that done unless you can pull it from another production vehicle, and there isn't a reason to do that (transmission dictates the shifter type, not the other way around).
 

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An auto tranny is an auto tranny no matter how you shift it. I HATE the "tap shift" autos that I have driven. I have test driven cars from other companies to see how they are too, but they all suck :rolleyes:
The PCM controles the tranny and there is only so much you can do with an auto. The steering wheel shift tabs on ANY car with an auto is just a sails gimmic :(

Now Ferrari, on the other hand that shifts a manual tranny looks like a good "tap shift" system. I have never driven one but it is a manual tranny.
 

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rlhammon said:
This is NOT the reason Tap **** / Autostick / Tip-tronic / (insert trade name here) was created. There are changes going on in transmissions which have lead to design changes in shifters.

Getrag is working on a new transmission in which there are two input shafts constantly spun up at speed. One used for 1,3,5 and the other for 2,4,6 (if it's a 6 speed). Advantage, no clutch needed... not at all. Pull the lever back and let it go... no power off / disengage clutch / shift / engage clutch / power on... instead, power on / shift / power on.
Are you talking about the VW tranny? Because the way I understand it, it does have a "clutch" It actualy has a torque converter just like an auto matic tranny and a clutch for each gear shaft. The PCM shfts the "manual trany VERY fast because the next gear up or down (depending on accel or decel) is alredy ingear waiting for the clutch to drop. It actualy is in two gears at all times :eek: But one clutch is ingaged and the other is disengaged, and the torque converter takes up the shock of the clutches shfting so the driver does not even feel the shift.
 

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rlhammon said:
Getrag is working on a new transmission in which there are two input shafts constantly spun up at speed. One used for 1,3,5 and the other for 2,4,6 (if it's a 6 speed). Advantage, no clutch needed... not at all. Pull the lever back and let it go... no power off / disengage clutch / shift / engage clutch / power on... instead, power on / shift / power on.
If I remember correctly, this is how the DSG manumatic in the Audi TT 3.2 operates. In technical terms, it is like having two clutches, one for each set of gears as you specified, and operates them by computer electronically. It allows the transmission to pre-select the next gear and have it ready to go as soon as you order a shift. However, unlike a normal automatic, it doesn't use a torque converter.

Actually, your discussion really opens up a third level of allowing partial control.

The MR2 Spyder had an available manumatic transmission. Essentially, it was a standard manual, but instead of a clutch pedal the computer operated the clutch itself. You still had to order a gear change by shifting it (ala a tap shift) so it really wasn't a true automatic. It was sort of a manual without the inconvenience of a clutch pedal I suppose.

[edit: Rick, you beat me to it! We were both thinking the same thing I think! :) ]
 

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Steering wheel mounted tap shifts are meant so that we can pretend that we are Formula One drivers while tooling around in our very-not Formula One street cars. Give me a clutch and shifter!
 

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solli4me said:
I think the point of a stick shift is to maintain control over your driving experience.
Has anybody out there ever been able to shift into gear without depressing the clutch? It's like trying to find the holy grail.
my friends dad has done it. but i've only seen him do it once when he was EXTREMELY pissed off and it is rather impressive. just forced it into every last gear he used. didn't even bother with the clutch. it was about a 95 or 96 chevy 1500 truck. he's a rather large man that you didn't ever want to see pissed off... especially at you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Now I drove the autostick on the Eclipse spyder. And I actually enjoyed it. It operated like a clutchless manual. It still had a safety feature that wouldn't let you break the engine, but it didn't engage unless absolutely necessary. I could start off the line in 2nd and it would NOT even force me back into first.

It let me control the car, which is what I want, but my wife doesn't know how to drive a manual. That's why I possed the question. A good autostick would let me have my cake and eat it too.
 

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When my brother built his house in 1972 he bought a 1949 ford pickup. It had three on the tree (shifter mounted on the steering column) If you started out in first gear and brought up the speed you could back your foot off of the gas and shift into second without even touching the clutch. The funny thing was that if you did the same thing in second gear, the weight of the shifter was enough to drop the truck into third without even touching the shifter or the clutch. It was a great truck. He wishes he had kept it.
 
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