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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am in the process of converting a 2008 GXP to Ls power. Now that I have reached the point of removing the 2.0L motor, I would like to mention a few things. I know a significant part of being or having a business is making money, but sometimes a company's efforts in this area result in a poor product. I admire the Kappa in styling, structural design and suspension but the powertrain just sucks. For starters, the motor was designed and intended for transverse mounting. The inlet coolant hose is 4 feet long and goes from the radiator to the right rear of the motor. The thermostat is located in this area, against the firewall and below the cowl. The oil filter is on the left rear of the engine, obstructed by the intake manifold and the cowl.

How can a company expect success with such a product? The oil filter replacement issue is such, that aftermarket "remote" mounting kits have been made available. To service the clutch (on "torque bracket" equipped cars), the differential must be dropped in order to release the torque bracket and subsequently the transmission. GM service shop time for this job is 9.5 hrs. The turbo is little and anemic. The engine's redline for a square engine is unusually low, 6500 RPM. The rated power output of 240 HP may be overstated. My son's NA Civic Si (same bore and stroke 2.0L engine) easily outaccelerates the Solstice GXP with a rated output of 197HP.

Finally, what self respecting automobile enthusiast would be happy with a 5-speed transmission? I supposed in GM's defense, one could argue the target market was actually college coeds or first time car buyers, but it seems that America's educated consumers could not be convinced.
 

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Thank you for your opinion. Most of us on this forum enjoy our cars despite the drive train.

Have a fun time with your LS conversion and post lots of pictures.

:dthumbs:

.
 

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I am in the process of converting a 2008 GXP to Ls power. Now that I have reached the point of removing the 2.0L motor, I would like to mention a few things. I know a significant part of being or having a business is making money, but sometimes a company's efforts in this area result in a poor product. I admire the Kappa in styling, structural design and suspension but the powertrain just sucks. For starters, the motor was designed and intended for transverse mounting. The inlet coolant hose is 4 feet long and goes from the radiator to the right rear of the motor. The thermostat is located in this area, against the firewall and below the cowl. The oil filter is on the left rear of the engine, obstructed by the intake manifold and the cowl.

How can a company expect success with such a product? The oil filter replacement issue is such, that aftermarket "remote" mounting kits have been made available. To service the clutch (on "torque bracket" equipped cars), the differential must be dropped in order to release the torque bracket and subsequently the transmission. GM service shop time for this job is 9.5 hrs. The turbo is little and anemic. The engine's redline for a square engine is unusually low, 6500 RPM. The rated power output of 240 HP may be overstated. My son's NA Civic Si (same bore and stroke 2.0L engine) easily outaccelerates the Solstice GXP with a rated output of 197HP.

Finally, what self respecting automobile enthusiast would be happy with a 5-speed transmission? I supposed in GM's defense, one could argue the target market was actually college coeds or first time car buyers, but it seems that America's educated consumers could not be convinced.

With all of its faults, I think the most I can offer you for that engine is $100 :willy:
 

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Yes, a lot of truth in what you say. Except I'd have to take the "Civic Si easily outaccelerates the Solstice GXP" with a huge rock of salt! Either your GXP is way down on power, or you're not driving it as well as you should. A standard GXP (no tune) runs a 0-60 in around 5.5 secs, with the quarter somewhere on the low-mid 14's. The 2014 Civic Si, per Motor Trend, is:

For 2014, the 2.4-liter I-4 gains another 4 hp and 4 lb-ft of torque to produce 205 hp at 7000 rpm and 174 lb-ft at 4400 rpm, compliments of a freer-flowing exhaust system (piping shape and path were modified but diameter is the same) and refined powertrain control module data. Each peak output is achieved at the same engine speeds as last year’s Si. Paired with one of the, if not the, most engaging six-speed manual shifters on the market, the car bursts through the 60-mph barricade in 6.5 seconds before finishing the quarter mile in 15 seconds flat and trapping 93.5 mph. The times and speed nearly sync up with the first K24-equipped coupe we got our hands on and place the ’14 near the straight average of the 2006-2013 Si group.
Honda Civic Review - Motor Trend
 

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You must have happened on a particularly anemic example (BTW, they are 260, not 240 BHP.

A Honda Civic Si will do 1/4 in 15.1 and 0-60 in 6.1, as opposed to the GXP, which will do 14.2, and 5.6 seconds.

The turbo was very carefully chosen to be of a size that offered excellent torque from very low down. The RPM limitation is not inherent to the valve gear, but is mandated by the turbo sizing, because if you choose a size that gives flexibility, it will run out of wheeze as you get into the higher rpm ranges.

Many people do fit larger turbos, which produce more power higher up, but they experience a corresponding loss in low RPM torque. It is a trade off and I think on the whole, GM selected wisely.

I infer from your comments about servicing that you aren't that familiar with modern cars, which very often pose significant challenges in terms of servicing. The Corvettes, for example, have the clutch at the rear of the car and transmission at the front, and a clutch job requires removal of the whole rear suspension and diff unit.

Having a long coolant hose or a canister style oil filter that requires you to reach a bit really don't constitute a major inconvenience in comparison.

And I am one of the people that happen to prefer a 5 speed manual transmission, to adding additional low ratio gear(s) that you never need to use unless cruising at highly illegal speeds, with the attendant extra weight and cost entailed.
 

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You do make some valid points, and points I had not even heard before regarding the Kappa's drivetrain. However, I've said it once and I'll say it again. The whole Kappa program was compromised because of the price point it was shooting for. So energy can either be spent on its supposed negatives, or spent on building the car the way a Kappa enthusiast wants.

I think of the Kappa's platform like a Harley, a product where it's a pretty much given that the customer is going to start personalizing it the moment they get it home, or when the warranty runs out. But if I had to pick the Kappa's greatest shortcoming it wouldn't be its drivetrain as much as it would be it's interior (both versions). But Lutz was saying the Solstice would come in under 20K, so we got the Playskool interior (both versions). But it's nothing that 10-15K and a premium interior shop can't fix. :lol:

BTW, there is a new car being built with a price-no-object philosophy, rumored to cost 2.5 million. Bugatti Chiron to cost $2.5 million
 

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How can a company expect success with such a product?
All the issues you mentioned have nothing to due with its downfall, no one complained that they cant change the oil or the thermostat. A lot of car manufactures had issues selling cars during 2008-2010 for obvious reason, so a low volume 1st gen "toy" is usually the first on the chopping block.
The last tidbit you just shouldn't of mentioned because its not true.
 

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Must be a great project. Have fun !



Shouldn't one compare Torque instead of HP when talking about acceleration ?
uh oh, dangerous door you are opening. I don't want to distract the thread, but unless you talk about torque at the wheel (not the engine) then it's difficult to make a fair comparison. Power vs. vehicle speed is the way to go.

Back to the OP's points...I agree the redline is shorter than it should be for a performance enthusiast. This is unfortunately the trend with turbo gas (down speed & down size). On a side note, it's interesting to see diesel and gasoline engines converging. I wonder how long it is before VVT makes it on diesel and there are already discussions of gasoline particulate filters.

Ultimately the only reason to have a high redline is marketing or to make power (often both). With a turbo engine you don't need a high redline (in fact, doing so makes turbo sizing more difficult). Think about the Mitsu EVO's. They have a high redline and as a result the low end torque is anemic by comparison (although not likely a big concern for people on a car forum).

Daniel
 

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:thumbs:The Solstice is exactly what GM wanted it to be. They met those goals. Criticism just means that you don't agree with GM's goals or execution. The Solstice wasn't intended to be a muscle car, super car, exotic, "one off" or even a Miata. Love it for what it is - and for what it isn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I should have mentioned the Si has a header, cold air intake and lighter flywheel and aftermarket forged wheels. I did not mean to demean the Solstice, its a 2 seater convertible with a disappearing top. The styling is superb and the "chassis" like platform and non-Mcpherson, all aluminum suspension is fantastic. My criticism is directed at the abuse of large company like GM to us the consumers, giving us a difficult to work motor and modest power. The Civic type R (same bore and stroke) makes 330HP and sports a 6 speed transmission. I know the Solstice's shortcomings are entirely due to GM's attempt to sell if for 25,000, which in the end, ended up being a little more.

The car is a fine platform for modification precisely for its price point. My apologies to anyone I may have offended.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Here are some pictures of the project. The engine is free and can be pulled as soon as I bring the lift from my storage unit. The PS and torsion bar still need to be removed as well as the brake oil line (along the front cross member) to weld the V8 motor mounts. I was surprised to discover that the engine management wiring is combined with the accessories, non-engine sensors, transmission and battery. A V8 wiring will run the new motor but the rest of the wiring will require extracting and relooming. The differential torque bracket can be seen and its replacement with the auto style design. Driver's side axle and knuckle had to come out in order to lower the differential to remove the torque bracket/DS assembly.
 

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Seems you accidentally bought a Solstice instead of a Honda, since you're all praise for the Honda.
 

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My criticism is directed at the abuse of large company like GM to us the consumers, giving us a difficult to work motor and modest power. The Civic type R (same bore and stroke) makes 330HP and sports a 6 speed transmission. I know the Solstice's shortcomings are entirely due to GM's attempt to sell if for 25,000, which in the end, ended up being a little more.
Still not right.

The LNF has the highest specific output from any engine in GM history. In 2006 when it first saw production, it was revolutionary and bested any 4 cylinder and many six cylinder engines out there. They chose an output based on warranty expectations, but the engines are easily tunable and GM themselves offered a 290 tune, while after market tuners handily exceed 300. Anything up to around 500 bhp is available with further modification

Now, almost a decade down the road, there are a plethora of direct injected turbo engines with significantly higher output.

Comparing a stock (and in your case, not a properly running) Solstice against a modified car from another manufacturer is specious.

And I still don't get your attraction to a useless 6th speed in your transmissions. Where exactly do you get to do your 100 mph+ cruising...? To each his own.
 

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I should have mentioned the Si has a header, cold air intake and lighter flywheel and aftermarket forged wheels. I did not mean to demean the Solstice, its a 2 seater convertible with a disappearing top. The styling is superb and the "chassis" like platform and non-Mcpherson, all aluminum suspension is fantastic. My criticism is directed at the abuse of large company like GM to us the consumers, giving us a difficult to work motor and modest power. The Civic type R (same bore and stroke) makes 330HP and sports a 6 speed transmission. I know the Solstice's shortcomings are entirely due to GM's attempt to sell if for 25,000, which in the end, ended up being a little more.

The car is a fine platform for modification precisely for its price point. My apologies to anyone I may have offended.
Still not right.

The LNF has the highest specific output from any engine in GM history. In 2006 when it first saw production, it was revolutionary and bested any 4 cylinder and many six cylinder engines out there. They chose an output based on warranty expectations, but the engines are easily tunable and GM themselves offered a 290 tune, while after market tuners handily exceed 300. Anything up to around 500 bhp is available with further modification

Now, almost a decade down the road, there are a plethora of direct injected turbo engines with significantly higher output.

Comparing a stock (and in your case, not a properly running) Solstice against a modified car from another manufacturer is specious.

And I still don't get your attraction to a useless 6th speed in your transmissions. Where exactly do you get to do your 100 mph+ cruising...? To each his own.
Isn't the Type R a 2015 MY car? And you're comparing it to a Kappa which came out in 2006? NOT a fair comparison.

If the Kappa had continued production, I bet that it would have an LS motor by now.

Yogi
 

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If the Kappa had continued production, I bet that it would have an LS motor by now.

Yogi
Nope - total non-starter for that one.

The Corvette has a very strong support group within GM and they have always jealously guarded the model's status as a 'halo' model. There was significant reaction when they found out in the 1980s that Pontiac had developed a couple of prototype Fieros with a turbo V6. Although the output was modest by today's standards (190 bhp in a 2500 lb. car), back then they talked about requiring a customer to take a high speed driving course as a condition of buying the model, if it were ever released.

It wasn't released because it was far too close to the Corvette in performance. The Corvette weighed over 3200 lbs. and had 240 bhp and cornering was only equal to the Fiero.
 

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I bought my Solstice because it was a beautiful two seat convertible sports car, offering excellent handling and high power. It did NOT exceed modern super cars in lots of areas....but it also didn't cost $100,000 or more. I got exactly what I wanted in a sports car, and wouldn't trade it for anything out there.
 

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The LNF returns 6.5L/100km (36 mpg) on a lazy cruise or accelerates to 60 mph in under 6 seconds. With a basic tune it will accelerate to 60 mph in under 5 seconds and I've had mine to 160 mph.

My previous "fun" car was a CTS-V, and I am universally more impressed with the LNF than I was with the LS2 in every aspect except noise.

If the Civic Type-R now produces 330hp, congratulations to Honda. They've caught up to Opel/GM engineering of 2007. :)
 
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