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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just bought my 2008 today, and this is my first turbo car, so bare with me on this.
I drove around the town and pushed it to 70mph.
The reading on the boost is empty [ ] and the psi shows 0 at all times.
is that normal? what does the display it supposed to say?
and also i can hear "air hissing" sound constantly when driving as if there the is an air leakage somewhere in the engine.
what do you guys think?
 

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If there was an air leak, you would get a CEL...usually. Anything to do with the turbo and 0psi, should set a CEL. You have to get to almost 1/2 throttle before you get any boost....did you do that? If you haven't, be sure your in 2nd or 3rd and hit the floor with the gas peddle....of course being careful not to kick the rear sideways...this should produce some psi. If it doesn't...there is definetly an issue. The hissing sound is normal turbo sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If there was an air leak, you would get a CEL...usually. Anything to do with the turbo and 0psi, should set a CEL. You have to get to almost 1/2 throttle before you get any boost....did you do that? If you haven't, be sure your in 2nd or 3rd and hit the floor with the gas peddle....of course being careful not to kick the rear sideways...this should produce some psi. If it doesn't...there is definetly an issue. The hissing sound is normal turbo sound.
Yup, the CEL appeared.
Taking back to carmax. Thanx
 

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Please, do me this favor.... Talk to the service manager and make sure that someone with Pontiac Solstice knowledge is the only one that will touch your car. I deal with a conglomerate used car dealer for work, and the techs they have don't know their head from a hole in the floor. There are specific lifting instructions for your car (found here in the pdf link on the first posting: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f12/solstice-jack-lifting-points-19139/, specific water pump replacement instructions, etc, etc, etc.... Take the lifting instructions with you...if they lift it wrong, they will crush your floor or crush your fender... One thing you can do if you want to check it out on your own is make sure all of the connections are tight from the turbo down the intercooler piping to the intercooler and then on the other side from the intercooler to the throttle body...

There's only a few things it could be....your IC piping isn't tight or is split, or your intercooler bulged and broke open. Do you know what the code is? You know you get 3 months free of Onstar and they can tell you what your engine code is when the CEL comes on.... Just throwing that out there..... Oh....and welcome to the forums and ownership of a fantastic little sports car!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Please, do me this favor.... Talk to the service manager and make sure that someone with Pontiac Solstice knowledge is the only one that will touch your car. I deal with a conglomerate used car dealer for work, and the techs they have don't know their head from a hole in the floor. There are specific lifting instructions for your car (found here in the pdf link on the first posting: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f12/solstice-jack-lifting-points-19139/, specific water pump replacement instructions, etc, etc, etc.... Take the lifting instructions with you...if they lift it wrong, they will crush your floor or crush your fender... One thing you can do if you want to check it out on your own is make sure all of the connections are tight from the turbo down the intercooler piping to the intercooler and then on the other side from the intercooler to the throttle body...

There's only a few things it could be....your IC piping isn't tight or is split, or your intercooler bulged and broke open. Do you know what the code is? You know you get 3 months free of Onstar and they can tell you what your engine code is when the CEL comes on.... Just throwing that out there..... Oh....and welcome to the forums and ownership of a fantastic little sports car!
Ghost you are a lifesaver, at least saved me nightmare trip to carmax. Yes it was the IC piping. i think the brackets on it weren't tight enough and it popped out. I was so bummed yesterday that i didn't even pop the hood, drove the car home and parked it in my garage in disappointments of driving the car for only 1hr and dealing with this. Thank you sir. after few miles driving the CEL is also disappeared and I enjoyed a nice Californica morning driving the car.
and by the way you were right about having the "bug". lol
life is good again!:)
 

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Ghost you are a lifesaver, at least saved me nightmare trip to carmax. Yes it was the IC piping. i think the brackets on it weren't tight enough and it popped out. I was so bummed yesterday that i didn't even pop the hood, drove the car home and parked it in my garage in disappointments of driving the car for only 1hr and dealing with this. Thank you sir. after few miles driving the CEL is also disappeared and I enjoyed a nice Californica morning driving the car.
and by the way you were right about having the "bug". lol
life is good again!:)
AWESOME! My suggestion, if you don't plan on any mods, is to at least buy the t-clamps that ddm sells and replace those stock clamps so this never happens again. How much boost were you seeing? Normal OEM cars will see 10-16psi under full throttle....one that's been tuned should see 16+psi....but many guys will tell you that boost means nothing...(it really depends on your altitude) I see 21psi of boost, I'm tuned. An easy way to see if you have the GMPP tune is to look on the cool side of your intercooler (the driver's side) and look at the sensor in the pipe. If you have one screw/bolt, you have the GMPP tune and should see about 290hp and 345 lbs of torque. But if you have 2 screws/bolts that hold it in, you may still be tuned if your seeing the higher boost numbers. If your not tuned, for $400 Trifecta offers a great tune for our car.
 

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That's great. I too have an 08 GXP and it's awesome. Enjoy your lil roadster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
AWESOME! My suggestion, if you don't plan on any mods, is to at least buy the t-clamps that ddm sells and replace those stock clamps so this never happens again. How much boost were you seeing? Normal OEM cars will see 10-16psi under full throttle....one that's been tuned should see 16+psi....but many guys will tell you that boost means nothing...(it really depends on your altitude) I see 21psi of boost, I'm tuned. An easy way to see if you have the GMPP tune is to look on the cool side of your intercooler (the driver's side) and look at the sensor in the pipe. If you have one screw/bolt, you have the GMPP tune and should see about 290hp and 345 lbs of torque. But if you have 2 screws/bolts that hold it in, you may still be tuned if your seeing the higher boost numbers. If your not tuned, for $400 Trifecta offers a great tune for our car.
the highest i've seen is 15.
 

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Where do you live Alex? I'm in TX and closer to sea level so my norm is 13-14 and every once in a while I'll get a blip of 15.
 

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To better understand how the code works, take a look at this thread by one of the GM power train engineers

Basically this is the relationship of altitude / temperature and boost

I am especially interested in stock vehicles. I think a typical LNF car is not going to be too far away from this:

-2000' (cold day below freezing) 14-15 PSI
-1000' (15-16)
0' (16-17)
+1000' (17~18)
+2000' 19 PSI (close to SAE J1349 standard)
+4000' 20 PSI
+6000' 20~21 PSI


http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f43/boost-levels-atmospheric-conditions-thread-54423/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To better understand how the code works, take a look at this thread by one of the GM power train engineers

Basically this is the relationship of altitude / temperature and boost

I am especially interested in stock vehicles. I think a typical LNF car is not going to be too far away from this:

-2000' (cold day below freezing) 14-15 PSI
-1000' (15-16)
0' (16-17)
+1000' (17~18)
+2000' 19 PSI (close to SAE J1349 standard)
+4000' 20 PSI
+6000' 20~21 PSI


http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f43/boost-levels-atmospheric-conditions-thread-54423/
aha! that explains, i was at 2000ft angeles crest mountains when i saw 15 for the first time.
 

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Hmmm, well, I think I'm right at 0' and my normal high is 14 and I see a lot of 13's. On warmer days with lower humidity, I have seen a blip if 16 but it was once and only for a split second. I always thought mine didn't as responsive and I've never had a CEL come on.
 

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It is driven by the torque based tuning in the car.

Here is what I wrote a while ago. Probably more than you wanted to know . .. but what the heck

There is a very lengthy post on this subject. Westers did a write up on the GMPP tune and what it does and does not do to the car.
The way the code is written in the ECM, the 2.0 is torque managed. The factory tune manages the engine parameters to produce 260 ft pounds of torque. The horse power is a result of achieving that torque value.
If you add hardware that is capable of producing torque values (and resultant HP) above the 260 ft pounds target, the ECM will "learn down" to achieve 260 ft pounds.
Basically, there are a set of data tables that are fixed. And there is memory that is controlled by the ECM. The fixed parameters cover all the possible variables, timing, fuel, air, boost, cam timing etc. It’s more complicated than that but conceptually you get the idea.
The ECM is constantly looking at all the sensors it has available. It is constantly "learning up and learning down" the various parameters it can control to maintain what it believes to be the settings that produce 260 ft pounds of torque.
It’s not strictly learning down because the ECM is constantly varying in real time the engine parameters it controls. What is really happening is the ECM is choosing specific settings from the pre-programmed tables for timing, fuel, air, boost, cam timing etc. based on near real time calculations. The calculations include throttle pedal setting, ambient temperature, air flow rates, O2 sensor readings etc.
The ECM "remembers" where it is at in each of the data tables. It "learns" where it is in each of the tables as it changes its mind on where to pull the settings from the tables based on current sensor readings. It does not create data per se, it uses the data it has in the tables but changes where it pulls the data in the tables based on a set of rules programmed into the ECM operating system.
Since the ECM can react faster than the mechanical systems it is managing, there is a built in time constraint on how much it can change its entry points into each of the data tables. The time constraint is a real time - mille seconds for some setting changes and key cycles for others.
Typically when you are running an unmodified car, when you start the car it "remembers" where it was when it was shut down and begins with that location as the current setting. It looks at the MAF to update air density and watches the O2 sensors to make sure it’s managing the settings. But it does not make any big changes when you start the car. It is making small "make play" environmental changes to optimize the startup and initial running experience. It may make small changes during that run cycle but is constrained to making small changes per run cycle.
If you bolt on a piece of hardware that can produce 10+ hp, the ECM makes small adjustments per its constraints, but it will experience an increase in torque measured because of the hardware update. It will adjust the engine parameters to avoid damage - that is crank up the fuel to avoid lean runs and vary the timing to avoid knock. So you may see the 10 hp increase for that cycle.

When you shut the car off and restart it - executing one key cycle - the ECM will recognize that it is producing MORE than the target of 260 ft. pounds and will crank down the parameters it controls as much as it can in that key cycle. Over the course of 5-6 key cycles, the ECM will be incrementally adjusting the engine parameters to get back to the ideal 260 ft pounds. After 5-6 key cycles, with each cycle resulting in the maximum "learn down" allowed, the car will be producing 260 ft pounds of torque. Again the HP is a product of producing the value that results from the ECM setting parameters.

The GMPP tune provides a new set of data tables and a new entry point in those tables. The new tables allow more growth in torque (much higher limit for "learn down") and they change the baseline starting point in the tables to the settings that are predicted to produce 340 ft pounds of torque. At that baseline torque, the resultant HP is about 290. There is some variability in HP measured for different cars because there are detail differences in the hardware across the sample set.

All tunes do basically the same thing. They change some of the values in the existing data tables. No tune will support unlimited HP growth because the physical size of the data tables is limited. All have an "edge" somewhere that forms the practical limit for power growth. The GMPP tune and the Westers tune all change the key parameter values in the tables to produce the desired result.
 

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That's excellent Rob. Very informative. weird that you only need a 30HP increase to gain 80 ft lbs of torque. I have a tune on my list coming up next month and can't wait to feel that added 80lbs. I'm sure that's a very noticeable difference and am looking forward to it.
 

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Mine was putting down over 400 ft pounds at the wheels and 305 hp on Dave's dyno before they pulled the engine for the swap. The tune is based on torque and the HP is a result of achieving the torque. The limiting factor in the tune is turbo safety. There is a lot of interesting info in the archives beginning in 2009 and 2010. But unfortunately if you were not around then, you do not know it exists. :grouphug:
 

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400 ft lbs with the stock LNF?
 

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So I was informed. 340 with the GMPP tune is still conservative. The cat adds 16 to 28 hp and a lot more torque. Dr D did more tweaking to come up with the final numbers.
 

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Here is the reference

Copied the salient information. AT 373 Wheel torque, if you use 15% loss that calculates out to 428 ft pounds and 350 HP at the flywheel. If you use 18% loss, its 440 ft pounds of torque at the flywheel. At any rate, its pretty conservative to conclude that it was producing 400 ft pounds.

Dave ran a baseline on the existing 2.0 motor. I have not gotten the curves yet but will post them when I do get them. Dave has been playing with the 2.0, tuning it to see how much output he can safely achieve. He reports that after spending some TLC with it, his tuning produced 305 HP and 373 ft pounds at the wheels. He said this is his first opportunity to work with a car with "all the options".
Dejon charge tubes, intake elbow and CAI
Solo high flow cat
GMPP tune
Dejon intercooler
Magnaflow cat back


http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f59/ddm-works-ls3-conversion-1-a-66190/
 

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wow. i think I'll try and make the above list my wishlist. That's impressive.
 
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