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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The Solstice will not have a S/C but a Turbo!

2890 pounds and 240 horsepower!
pics here:

<Pic removed by request of C&G my Mod.>

I love the silly puddy stuff on the valve cover!
 

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bradyb said:
I love the silly puddy stuff on the valve cover!
Actually, that's chewing gum. Actually, it's probably epoxy putty, some of the greatest stuff in the world for fixing things. I'm fixing my old Camaro's leaky radiator this weekend with some epoxy putty. If it's good enough for GM R&D, it's good enough for me.
 

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Not sure I like the idea of a "revised" front facia, :skep: and is that the same 2.4 ecotec, or is it a different one? Still would have prefered a supercharger, oh well.
 

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AeroDave said:
Not sure I like the idea of a "revised" front facia, :skep: and is that the same 2.4 ecotec, or is it a different one? Still would have prefered a supercharger, oh well.
IMHO, the front is the weakest look on the car and the only part of it I "had to get used to" rather than finding perfect immediately. I am very curious to see the new front end and especially so since I have long since decided to buy an FI Solstice and not the base model. Maybe we will get a spy shot.
 

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AeroDave said:
... and is that the same 2.4 ecotec, or is it a different one? Still would have prefered a supercharger, oh well.
Don't really know. This shows signs it's a "mid development" version because it has a different intake and exhaust manifold yet wires are still too long and coiled, there's tie wrapped wires, hoses without support and a welded pipe to intercooler.

But what has me puzzled is the valve cover with "turbo" in the casting, as well as "ECOTEC". Has anyone seen a Saab Turbo valve cover and does it look like this? And why would you need a different valve cover just to add a turbo?

And I just can't picture how the stock air box goes to the right side of the engine like normal yet the turbo's on the left. How does the intake charge get to the turbo? Is there something we don't see?

My guess is the JB Weld epoxy was because the hose bib got broken off, not because it's been added. If it was because the bib was added I think there'd be a lot more of this "******* Engineering" visible.
 

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well brady, welcome to yesterday. ;)

next time you think you may have some breaking news to post, be sure and check over the forums a little bit to make sure that someone else hasn't already beat you to it.
 

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But why dual exhausts? I saw somewhere that it was listed as 'true dual exhausts'. How can that be, with just one exhaust manifold? I really dislike duals on 4 cylinder cars. . . I know how little the pipes need to be for proper breathing.
 

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FightingChance said:
But why dual exhausts? I saw somewhere that it was listed as 'true dual exhausts'. How can that be, with just one exhaust manifold? I really dislike duals on 4 cylinder cars. . . I know how little the pipes need to be for proper breathing.

Will be "dual exhaust" from the cat back only. This turbo setup like most will sit at the end of the exhaust manifold. A crossover pipe is not needed with this type of setup whereas a true dual exhaust would.
 

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Yeah also refered to as "dual outlet" exhaust system. It's not a true dual because it's only one pipe to the cat as was mentioned.
 

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FightingChance said:
But why dual exhausts? I saw somewhere that it was listed as 'true dual exhausts'. How can that be, with just one exhaust manifold? I really dislike duals on 4 cylinder cars. . . I know how little the pipes need to be for proper breathing.
:agree: Let the car's performance speak for itself.
 

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Delnari said:
Will be "dual exhaust" from the cat back only. This turbo setup like most will sit at the end of the exhaust manifold. A crossover pipe is not needed with this type of setup whereas a true dual exhaust would.
What? :confused:

Why would you run dual exhaust from the cat back? Just trying to understand, because it seems like a waste, especially on an inline engine... Why have the extra pipe?

Or am I reading your explanation wrong - 'cause I just can't imagine starting from the cat and running two pipes to the back (with two or one muffler?). The exhaust just doesn't make sense as anything other than a "dual outlet" muffler.
 

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solsticeman said:
What? :confused:

Why would you run dual exhaust from the cat back? Just trying to understand, because it seems like a waste, especially on an inline engine... Why have the extra pipe?

Or am I reading your explanation wrong - 'cause I just can't imagine starting from the cat and running two pipes to the back (with two or one muffler?). The exhaust just doesn't make sense as anything other than a "dual outlet" muffler.

1 pipe from the cat to the muffler, two pipes comming from muffler to the back of the car.

reason? Because it looks that much damn better.
 

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Nocturn said:
1 pipe from the cat to the muffler, two pipes comming from muffler to the back of the car.....
Yeah, that's what I understood, but it seemed like Delnari was saying it was dual pipe from the cat (up by the firewall) to the back - that just did not make sense to me...

If I look at the underside shots of the Sky correctly, (it seems logical they wouldn't really change the location of the muffler) I can see the "two pipes coming from muffler to the back of the car" would be about 9" long at most. I'm just imagining another pipe doing the same thing that is shown on the underside shot.


Nocturn said:
...reason? Because it looks that much damn better.
Yah, see, 4 me that is reason enough NOT to have a dual outlet exhaust.

1) if it don't enhance the performance of the car, I don't need it - the Solstice is great looking anyways... Why add the extra 5# of metal - in fact, why not just downsize the muffler and save that much more weight? It's like the AFBTS's.
2) I voted on the "do nothing" for differentiation of the GXP. I'd like to have a car that maybe has some sublte brake ducts, and the rest of it transparent. I don't need special stitching, hood bumps or scoops, dual outlet (read: FAKE) exhaust...
3) Besides, the exhaust is behind me. That which is behind me is not important :lol:


Those are my thoughts, not yours. JMHO. Take 'em for what you paid to read them...
 

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solsticeman said:
Yeah, that's what I understood, but it seemed like Delnari was saying it was dual pipe from the cat (up by the firewall) to the back - that just did not make sense to me...

If I look at the underside shots of the Sky correctly, (it seems logical they wouldn't really change the location of the muffler) I can see the "two pipes coming from muffler to the back of the car" would be about 9" long at most. I'm just imagining another pipe doing the same thing that is shown on the underside shot.




Yah, see, 4 me that is reason enough NOT to have a dual outlet exhaust.

1) if it don't enhance the performance of the car, I don't need it - the Solstice is great looking anyways... Why add the extra 5# of metal - in fact, why not just downsize the muffler and save that much more weight? It's like the AFBTS's.
2) I voted on the "do nothing" for differentiation of the GXP. I'd like to have a car that maybe has some sublte brake ducts, and the rest of it transparent. I don't need special stitching, hood bumps or scoops, dual outlet (read: FAKE) exhaust...
3) Besides, the exhaust is behind me. That which is behind me is not important :lol:


Those are my thoughts, not yours. JMHO. Take 'em for what you paid to read them...

Can you prove that the extra outlet doesn't increase performance?
 

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:agree:
solsticeman said:
Yah, see, 4 me that is reason enough NOT to have a dual outlet exhaust.

1) if it don't enhance the performance of the car, I don't need it - the Solstice is great looking anyways... Why add the extra 5# of metal - in fact, why not just downsize the muffler and save that much more weight? It's like the AFBTS's.
2) I voted on the "do nothing" for differentiation of the GXP. I'd like to have a car that maybe has some sublte brake ducts, and the rest of it transparent. I don't need special stitching, hood bumps or scoops, dual outlet (read: FAKE) exhaust...
 

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Nocturn said:
Can you prove that the extra outlet doesn't increase performance?
No, but you can't prove that it DOES. If no conclusive and measureable evidence (assuming the upstream is properly sized) of improvement, it's a waste - OR I should restate it to "the only primary function is that of personal style preference."

It doesn't make sense (to me - but I'm sure there's someone who disagrees with me) that there is major restriction AFTER a properly sized muffler.

The circumstantial evidence is that the function of dual outlet exhaust is styling - I've not seen anyone with two dyno plots of single vs. dual OUTLET exhaust. However, with the attitude that seems to have dominated the solstice development, if a 9" extra outlet pipe on the muffler got them another 0.1 seconds 0-60 or another 3 hp out of the 2.4l N/A, I would thing they would have done it so they could advertise 180 horsepower instead of 177... (that just SOUNDS better, doesn't it?).

Do you know ANYONE who has put dual outlet exhaust and claimed improved performance, and then backed it up with data?

I'm not saying changing the exhaust configuration doesn't matter - what I'm saying is after the muffler, one or two outlets make no measureable difference.
 

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S-man has a point. If the exhaust system on the GXP nets it any gain in HP/Torque it will more then likely be due to a better exhaust manifold, higher performance cat, larger tubing, a better muffler, or a combination of the four. Because if you're being restricted by any of the four of those then having an extra outlet on the exhuast is going to do absolutely nothing performance wise.
 

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I can think of two reasons to have dual exhausts from the cat back.

1) The preferred muffler, the one that gives the best sound, doesn't have enough capacity for the turbo'd engine. Since turbos depend on the pressure drop across the turbine, any back pressure from beyond the turbo is bad. Remember, GM doesn't produce a turbo car very often, but when they do, it's a screamer. Does anyone know offhand if the GNX had dual mufflers?

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

http://65.110.61.200/~stainw/cart/images/ca9597ch or ca9802ch.JPG

This is a system for the f-body. Single pipe from the Y-pipe back, then dual chambered mufflers. If you've ever heard a chambered exhaust, you know the sound is worth the goofy design. (I didn't post the picture itself because it's kind of large.)

2) The dual exhaust on the GTO is actually tuned to give a desired sound, like organ pipes. One pipe was made slightly longer than the other specifically to tune the exhaust note. And it's absolutely the best stock exhaust note I've ever heard; the only problem is it's not loud enough for my tastes.
 

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stonebreaker said:
I can think of two reasons to have dual exhausts from the cat back.

1) The preferred muffler, the one that gives the best sound, doesn't have enough capacity for the turbo'd engine. Since turbos depend on the pressure drop across the turbine, any back pressure from beyond the turbo is bad. Remember, GM doesn't produce a turbo car very often, but when they do, it's a screamer. Does anyone know offhand if the GNX had dual mufflers?

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

http://65.110.61.200/~stainw/cart/images/ca9597ch or ca9802ch.JPG

This is a system for the f-body. Single pipe from the Y-pipe back, then dual chambered mufflers. If you've ever heard a chambered exhaust, you know the sound is worth the goofy design. (I didn't post the picture itself because it's kind of large.)

2) The dual exhaust on the GTO is actually tuned to give a desired sound, like organ pipes. One pipe was made slightly longer than the other specifically to tune the exhaust note. And it's absolutely the best stock exhaust note I've ever heard; the only problem is it's not loud enough for my tastes.
Thanks.

I understand reason 2.

What is the difference between dual exhaust from cat-back and a larger exhaust tube (reason 1). Why not just use a larger exhaust pipe diameter?
 

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solsticeman said:
Thanks.

I understand reason 2.

What is the difference between dual exhaust from cat-back and a larger exhaust tube (reason 1). Why not just use a larger exhaust pipe diameter?
It has to do with sound quality. Mufflers can be tuned to favor certain frequencies over others, affecting not only the volume but the tone of the exhaust. The most extreme examples of bad muffler design are the 5" diameter fart cans the kids like to slap on their rice burners. The exhaust gas coming through the middle of the pipe gets no sound control, so as the rpm climb, you get more and more unmanaged sound coming out the pipe - and it's that undesireable, high frequency sound that gives the buzzy, raspy quality that makes fart cans so annoying.

V8 cars use two mufflers all the time. My impala came from the factory with four - two main ones and two smaller resonators. By passing the gas through smaller diameter pipes, it's easier to remove the undesireable sound frequencies. In order to keep backpressure reasonably low, you have to have parallel pipes to handle the given volume of gas and still get the desireable sound frequencies. Thus the dual mufflers in the above link even though the pipe from the cat to the mufflers is a single 3-inch pipe in the f-bodies.

A forced induction engine produces a lot of exhaust. Add 12-15 lbs of boost to the ecotec and you've got just as much if not more exhaust than the LS2. Then turbo adds its own high frequencies to the exhaust, which compounds the problem. At this point it becomes simply a WAG*, but you may get better sound quality from dual mufflers than you would from one larger one. It would certainly make it easier to absorb the undesireable high frequencies that the fart cans seem unable to deal with.





* WAG - Wild Assed Guess
 
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