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UGGHH, introduced air into the cooling system

22K views 148 replies 12 participants last post by  laser411 
#1 ·
Hello all,

So my low coolant light came on yesterday and I filled it and now my car is overheating. I am currently stuck at work (I limped it here).

I have a set of sockets and pliers and other tools as well. As well as a decently steep hill I can park on. Now that I have ****ed up and introduced air, what is the best way for me to correct this without getting towed to a shop?:(
 
#120 · (Edited)
Anything that moves will have a bearing.

The balance shafts are there to offset the vibration inherent in an inline 4-banger. They’re easy to remove if the timing cover is off. (If you weren’t already a ton of cash into this job and were interested in modifying the car, I’d suggest a balance shaft delete while you’re in there.) The chain that drives the water pump circulates amongst the pump sprocket, two balance shaft sprockets, the crank, a tensioner and a few guides.

That chain is driven by the crank. It’s either no longer firmly attached, or the sprocket on the crank is trashed.

There’s no definitive way to tell what the issue is until the timing cover is off. :(




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#121 ·
i have a total of $5k in this car thus far, including the car itself and the HP tuner, so not really bad at all. I plan to autocross this car, so I want to be sure it's as good of a condition as it can be.

How hard is it to do the delete kit?

I saw this: WERKSracing Ecotec Balance Shaft Delete Sprockets, Performance Autowerks

and this: MWR Ecotec Balance Shaft Deletes, Performance Autowerks

but what concerns me is this statement: "***Requires balance shafts to be cut and machined at the rear of the front mount housing." Does that apply if you are using both parts?
 
#122 ·
That's a great question. I don't have this particular mod on either of my cars so I can't say for sure. That said, I think the MWR part completely replaces the stock shaft. I can't see how that would fit while maintaining the stock shaft.

BUT, Dave Gilbert at Performance Autowerks would certainly be able to answer. They're very good about responding quickly to email and answering their phone. (Though, who knows if they're open as today is a holiday.)
 
#123 ·
From my understanding, a few have removed these and wished they hadn't. While you'll net about 20hp from it, its just not worth it unless all you're doing is racing the car. The only real advantage too it is that if you are tracking the car, you can use an electric WP instead of chain driven.
 
#124 ·
Does anyone here run an electric WP and can shed light on the install process and what needs to be removed? I imagine the stock water pump has to remain in place.

I have pulled the radiator fan, the hood, the charge pipes, and the upper radiator hose. Stopping for the day as I have spent way too much time on this car the last few days. I will say that the radiator fins are literally falling off with the lightest of touches, so I think an upgraded radiator is now a must. Does anyone know what modifications on the fan shroud are needed to fit the WERKS radiator?
 
#125 ·
If you are looking for a "better" radiator...look at Griffin Radiators. They're custom, so they're not cheap... I dont even know if they make them for the Solstice. It's a friend of a friend that owns the company. I know they do them for older muscle cars and trucks....
 
#126 ·
I'm not looking at going extravagant with the radiator, without a working water pump, the car runs for several miles before overheating so I doubt even the stock radiator has issues keeping the motor cool. I just figured that while I had it all apart and the radiator is clearly not in good condition, I would "upgrade" it. WERKS looks much thicker and better built so I'll just upgrade to that, unless the stock radiator is pretty cheap.
 
#127 ·
I have the Werks (Howe) radiator on my '06. It's a drop-in replacement, except for the fan shroud which needs to be trimmed on the sides to fit. A Dremel with a cutoff wheel, masking tape, a Sharpie and a steady hand make short work of it.

But, it's a $650-ish radiator. Not sure what the stock radiator goes for, but it has to be less than that. The extra gallon of coolant and WAY more surface area really comes in handy for road racing, but for autocross it's overkill.

Could you elaborate on fins "literally falling off?" As in, they are LITERALLY falling off?

Electric water pumps have been done by a few guys on the Cobalt forums (they also use the LNF motor). It's nontrivial. A properly installed pump should last you ~100k miles on this engine. (Though others have had different experience, so let the tomatoes fly.)
 
#128 ·
Yes, the fins are very corroded and weak, even just lightly running my hand across the fins makes them crumble off.

Still trying to find a cost effective timing and balancing kit that won't crap out quickly but also won't break the bank. Anyone have any experience or can recommend a kit?
 
#131 ·
Got the timing cover off!

So it looks like the balancer guide broke, tensioner sprung itself out into the cover, and the crank sprocket ate itself up since it didn't have tension.
 

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#132 ·
There are about 4 different name brand kits....ACDelco, Cloyes, Melling and 1 other I can't remember. Don't buy chinese junk knock offs. You'll be back in this same boat again in a year. Spend the $200 on one that I mentioned....It'll be like $100 for timing and $100 for balancer kit....
 
#133 ·
Wow. That's... impressive.

Maybe we should make some polycarbonate timing covers. It'd save some diagnostic time.
 
#135 ·
Luckily the timing chain is nice and tight, I think my upper guide bolt will probably come out just fine and not be a pita.

I did buy the Cloyes balance kit and then the Cloyes timing kit because they published videos on the process to satisfy my curiosity and it was a well made video; A company that is willing to do something like that, has my vote.

While I am at it, I'm going to buy the upgraded radiator (stock is about $200 and this one is horribly corroded), charge pipes, CAI, and intercooler upgrade (stock one is dented). If the car lasts more than a month after all this, I will upgrade the turbo, downpipe, and maybe the fuel rail.
 
#136 ·
Update:

Timing and balance kits are in, time to get to work!

I have also ordered a hahn intercooler, WERKS(I think) charge pipes, radiator, and cold air intake, as well as replacement fender wells.

As long as everything holds up for 2-3k miles, I'll get an EFR, Downpipe, GT concept front bumper, and norms GTO hood.
 

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#137 ·
Cool.

My GXP developed a rattle at autocross today. Most likely timing chain (not surprising at 110k miles), so I'll be following in your footsteps soon. I've done a chain on the LE5. I assume the LNF is pretty much the same aside from all the extra crap connected to the valve cover.

On the up side, this is a good opportunity / excuse to swap my big radiator over from the blue car.

Keep posting updates!
 
#138 ·
That sucks, I found the easiest way to get the turbo oil return line off is actually from the turbo side. You'll have to rock it back and forth and the gently pry with something veing extremely careful and getting as close as you can tk the stem as to not bend the flange.

You know what sucks more though? That I forgot to set top dead center before releasing tension and letting the cams shift..... Now I have to slowly shift everything by hand and figure out exactly where each piston is and slowly get back to TDC.

I know that the TDC on compression comes once in every 4 rotations. Since the crankshaft hits the same points the same way (no compression, intake, exhaust stroke, as far as the crankshaft alone is concerned). Can i remove the cams, set the crank w/ #1 piston at TDC, and set the cams back in at their TDC position? I feel that would be easier than removing the spark plugs, sticking extensions knside, and slowly turning everything back into position.

Does someone know an easier way?
 
#139 · (Edited)
You shouldn't have to remove the cams. The marks on the timing chain are placed such that, when they are aligned with the marks on the crank and the cam gears, they will all be timed correctly. Due to the length of the chain and relative gear sizes, there's only one way to put the chain on and have all of the marks line up correctly.

The crank will rotate two revolutions for every cam rotation. If you think about it, considering the suck-squeeze-boom-belch (intake, compression, ignition, exhaust) 4-cycle, the intake valves are only open for the "suck" part, and exhaust valves are only open for the "belch." But the pistons are at TDC for both the squeeze and the belch.

Since you already have the cover off, you can see that, with the crank key in the 12 o'clock position, #1 should be at TDC.

Another trick which should be performed *very* carefully is to put a long straw or a kabob poker or something in the #1 spark plug hole. That'll let you tell pretty easily when the piston is at the top of its stroke. Make sure the cams are in approximately the right position first to avoid having the valves hit the piston. An easy way to rotate the crank is to turn one of the rear tires by hand, slowly, while having someone watch your straw or whatever. I found that quite a bit easier than using a breaker bar on the crank bolt (which you've already removed, anyway). The car will (duh) have to be in gear, and only rotate the wheel in the direction it would spin if driving in that gear. (Just put it in 1st and rotate the driver's tire counter-clockwise.)

The following is ripped from the AutoZone site, which appears to have been copied verbatim from the factory service manual.

This is one of their better repair guides. I've included parts of the text, but their page has a lot more specific information.


2007 Pontiac Solstice Timing Chain & Sprockets Repair Guide

This is where the notches on the cams should be (visible before putting the gears back on the cams:)

Ensure the intake camshaft notch is in the 5 o'clock position (2) and the exhaust camshaft notch is in the 7 o'clock position (1). The number 1 piston should be at top dead center (TDC), crankshaft key at 12 o'clock.

WARNING

There are 3 colored links on the timing chain. 2 links are of matching color, and 1 link is of a unique color. Use the following procedure to line up the links with the actuators. Orient the chain so that the colored links are visible.




And the intake cam will be in this position:

Install the timing chain drive sprocket to the crankshaft with the timing mark in the 5 o'clock position and the front of the sprocket facing out.

Assemble the intake camshaft actuator into the timing chain with the timing mark lined up with the uniquely colored link


The crank key will be at 12 o'clock, with the chain mark at about 5 o'clock:

Lower the timing chain through the opening in the cylinder head. Use care to ensure that the chain goes around both sides of the cylinder block bosses.

Install the intake camshaft actuator onto the intake camshaft while aligning the dowel pin into the camshaft slot.

Hand tighten the new intake camshaft actuator bolt.

Route the timing chain around the crankshaft sprocket and line up the first matching colored link with the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket, in approximately the 5 o'clock position.


Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to remove all chain slack. Do not rotate the intake camshaft.

Install the adjustable timing chain guide down through the opening in the cylinder head and install the adjustable timing chain bolt.


Exhaust cam gear mark at about 10-11 o'clock:



Ultimately, with the guide installed, it'll look like this. All colored links and gear marks lined up.

 

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#140 ·
You shouldn't have to remove the cams. The marks on the timing chain are placed such that, when they are aligned with the marks on the crank and the cam gears, they will all be timed correctly. Due to the length of the chain and relative gear sizes, there's only one way to put the chain on and have all of the marks line up correctly.

The crank will rotate two revolutions for every cam rotation. If you think about it, considering the suck-squeeze-boom-belch (intake, compression, ignition, exhaust) 4-cycle, the intake valves are only open for the "suck" part, and exhaust valves are only open for the "belch." But the pistons are at TDC for both the squeeze and the belch.

Since you already have the cover off, you can see that, with the crank key in the 12 o'clock position, #1 should be at TDC.

Another trick which should be performed *very* carefully is to put a long straw or a kabob poker or something in the #1 spark plug hole. That'll let you tell pretty easily when the piston is at the top of its stroke. Make sure the cams are in approximately the right position first to avoid having the valves hit the piston. An easy way to rotate the crank is to turn one of the rear tires by hand, slowly, while having someone watch your straw or whatever. I found that quite a bit easier than using a breaker bar on the crank bolt (which you've already removed, anyway). The car will (duh) have to be in gear, and only rotate the wheel in the direction it would spin if driving in that gear. (Just put it in 1st and rotate the driver's tire counter-clockwise.)

The following is ripped from the AutoZone site, which appears to have been copied verbatim from the factory service manual.

This is one of their better repair guides. I've included parts of the text, but their page has a lot more specific information.


2007 Pontiac Solstice Timing Chain & Sprockets Repair Guide

This is where the notches on the cams should be (visible before putting the gears back on the cams:)







And the intake cam will be in this position:





The crank key will be at 12 o'clock, with the chain mark at about 5 o'clock:









Exhaust cam gear mark at about 10-11 o'clock:



Ultimately, with the guide installed, it'll look like this. All colored links and gear marks lined up.

It's sad, I knew the procedure but in my excitement, I threw procedure out the window without thought. I was so excited to get back on the road, which won't happen until my intercooler and radiator come in anyway.

I think I actually found a really good piece of advise: remove the chain, rotate the crank till all 4 pistons are in the middle(confirm with straws/kebobs/extensions), set the cams where I need them and then rotate the crank to TDC and attach the chain at the correct marks.

I know spinning the crank backwards is typically bad, but isn't that solely because of the timing chain/tensioner? So it doesn't overextend and make it too tight? Once that's removed from the equation, I should be good right?
 
#141 ·
Honestly, I think you're over-thinking this. If you put the crank gear's key at 12 o'clock, then cylinder #1 is at TDC.

Did you rotate the cams at some point? Given that your timing chain was still attached and functioning - the engine was running fine - everything should already be in approximately the right position. If you read the complete procedure that I linked to above, specifically steps 21-25, you'll see there's a step where it's necessary to rotate the exhaust cam about 45 degrees to get the dowl on the gear to pop into the notch on the end of the cam while keeping the chain in the right position. It also says not to rotate the intake cam at all. It's necessary to rotate the exhaust cam in order to get it in the correct phase and keep tension on the chain.

I'd be hesitant to spin the engine backwards. It'll probably be fine, though.
 
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#142 ·
There is always a concern in an interference engine with rotating any one component independently. If a piston is at TDC and a camshaft is rotated enough to open a valve in that cylinder there will be contact. Likewise if a valve is open and the crankshaft is rotated enough to raise that piston there will be contact. Rotating the engine in reverse raises concern because the chain drive is designed to only run forward and is tensioned on what is normally the slack side. Reverse rotation can load that part of the chain enough to deflect the tensioner, and if there is enough movement the chain can go slack enough to skip teeth. Absent that happening there is no inherent problem with reverse rotation.
 
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#143 ·
Another thing that should be obvious, but just didn't occur to me the first time I did a timing chain:

When rotating the cam, the valve springs will attempt to spin the cam after you've rotated it a few degrees. Use a long wrench on the cam and be prepared for it to try and get away from you.
 
#144 ·
Sorry, I thought I had made it clear in my earlier post but looking back on it, it was not. The cams indeed shifted because of spring pressure when I took the tensioner out and was looking at the chain. Both cams rotated independent of the crank. I hope they didn't impact the pistons but in theory, the valves should be, on overall average, retracting from the spring pressure.

I have an entire new kit, so if the chain/tensioner/guides are the only reason for not turning the crank backwards, than there's no worries. I will just figure out which of the pistons are highest and rotate the crank in a direction that lowers them so that all 4 are in the middle (nowhere near the valves).

In theory, at that point the process should look like this:
1. Remove chain completely
2. Use extension/straw/etc to figure out the levels of each piston
3. Set piston levels near the middle
4. Set the cams to their TDC position
5. Set the crank to TDC position
6. Attach chain and align timing marks
7. Profit!

Does anyone see any flaws or misconceptions in that plan?

EDIT: Side question, our 4 cylinder's pistons move up and down in pairs, right? Like the outer 2 and inner 2 move together?
 
#145 ·
Okay - that makes sense. Rotating the crank so that all of the pistons are mid-stroke should prevent valve-to-piston contact while timing the cams. Unless you're valves move by like 3", which would be both impressive and silly.

You're correct in that 1 and 4 move in sync, as do 2 and 3. So, if you rotate the crank so that the key is at 6 o'clock, everything should be in the position you're looking for. The question is which direction are you going to rotate, and will a piston hit the valves during the transition.

Shrug - sounds like you've got a well-considered plan. Go for it.
 
#147 ·
Ok, second issue. I cannot get the timing chain on, it seems like everything is just a bit too tight. If I get the cams on, then I can't get the tensioner guide on (can't push it far enough to line up the bolt hole). If I put the tensioner guide on, I can't get the exhaust cam sprocket onto its shaft (let alone the into the keyed slot). I have tried rotating the cams and rotating the crank while trying to seat the cam to no avail. Does anyone know any tricks?
 
#148 · (Edited)
Basically, you get the chain all lined up (without the tensioner installed), chain on the exhaust sprocket but with the sprocket not yet all the way on the cam.

There's an alignment pin on the back of both of the cam sprockets. You'll put a wrench on the hex portion of the exhaust cam and rotate it to get the sprocket on. Rotate the cam far enough that the sprocket alignment pin lines up with the slot in the end of the exhaust cam, push the sprocket all the way on, and then you can release the exhaust cam. The springs will cause it to rotate back and the pin will keep everything in the correct orientation.

That's all detailed in the AutoZone repair guide I linked to previously in this thread.

As far as the spacers go, I'm not sure what you're referring to. It's been awhile since I've done this.
 
#149 · (Edited)
So the tensioner got activated at some point and I didn't notice, everything went just fine once i found that out. The engine is back together and running just fine. Now I have to put the radiator, intercooler, bumper, and trim back on and I should be good to go.

There are 2 very thin washers/spacers, one that go between the timing/balance sprocket and one goes between the timing sprocket and the crank pulley. I just omitted the one between the crank pulley and timing sprocket.
 
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