Pontiac Solstice Forum banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am undecided about buying a Solstice. How could you expect me to be anything else.

With the recent confirmation showing how small the trunk storage will be, it seems some have been scared off buying a Solstice, while others swear they will buy one regardless. I can't say if I'll buy a Solstice.

I can't say, because there are so many unknown factors. I will absolutely have to test drive a Solstice, a Sky and a new NC Miata before I even begin my decision.

What about ergonomics and fit. What if the relationship of the seat, wheel and pedals is awful for me in the Solstice and Sky but a perfect fit in the new Miata? What if the gearing of the Miata makes the motor whine at cruising speeds while the Solstice/Sky sounds relaxed and easy? What if one or the other has jiggle suspension tuning that relays ever bump and expansion joint on the highway. What if one is noisy while the other is quiet?

All I am trying to say is, the Solstice is the sweetest, finest looking, classiest, classic roadster out there and I desparately want to own that gorgeous car. But I can't possibly commit to it without having ever driven one. While it is at the top of my short list of sports cars I would like to own, I won't be able to make a final decision until I have been able to test drive one (extensively) and test drive the competition. So those of you who know you will or won't buy one, I don't understand your thinking.

As for me, I can't wait to test drive the Solstice, Sky and new Miata so I can decide which most meets my needs over all.

And yes, I am pulling for the Solstice, because there are few more gorgeous cars on the road today and certainly nothing priced less than $40,000.

Go Solstice! :thumbs
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
4,592 Posts
Hi,

sounds like you are referring to my poll! Remember, most of us answer that poll knowing what we know now, that's implied. If the ones tht say for sure they will buy it show up for a test drive, and it bites, surely there goes that sale! And for those that say we won't buy, well, a visit to a dealer could change verything as we fall in love all over again. I, myself said, I won't buy the 1st year due to inconveniences with the top and trunk, but, what if they fix that in later years, or next generations? That's why I'm still here. That, and to hear how the car performs.

Hang In There :smile
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,206 Posts
Let me walk you through this...

You just got a call from me... unhhhh... Bob Lutz. In his gravelly voice, he tells you "I just decided you can buy a Solstice when it comes out for $3,450. But ya gotta buy it without driving it. Do you trust me?"

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd be willing to bet you might take it.

If not $3,450, then how about $2,000? $1,000? Have you bought it yet? If not, let's just bring it down to $5.00.

The point is, there is a price where you'll buy the car, sight unseen and drive undriven... For you that may be $5.00, $5,000, $15,000 or somewhere in between... some of us have looked at the bits and pieces, with a preview from the auto-enthusiast mags (driven back in Feb, 2004 - almost a year ago), and can see that for some of us (and THIS is the key, some of us) it's worth about 20,000 - 22,000 to make it an almost no-brainer.

Maybe that's extreme trust, or maybe that says something about GM, or the "gotta-have-itness" of the Solstice, or maybe we're banking on luck, or maybe we really know our stuff - time will tell.

If this still doesn't make sense, let me put it another way - say you're an enthusiast, I can believe you probably haven't driven the new Corvette C6 Z06 yet. But if Bob called and offered you the special price of $19,995 for a brand new one with full 3-year warranty, but you have to order it, maybe not you, but there are folks that would snap to attention and ask Bob how many could they have at that price.

Then there are those who are lucky enough to have driven a Solstice. Many have gone to their local BMW, Honda and Mazda dealers and driven, extensively, the Honda S2000, Z4 and Mazda (and even the MSM).

Nowadays, there's only a few ways to mess up a roadster. Most of those ways may not matter to some (like designing it to have a miniscule trunk, as an example, or styling it to look like an egg, for another). If you've got the bits and pieces together, don't have electric steering (I am extremely disappointed in the BMW Z4 steering), and have decent rubber, and decent structure, it's hard to really mess up the driving dynamics.

Not to say GM never makes mistakes, but I'm sure by now they realize this is one of the last chances to prove that at least in the tuning department, they really do know what they are doing.

'Course, many of us may be buying $22,000, mildly water-resistant lemons. I just personally think that that is a low risk.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
RODEO said:
Hi,

sounds like you are referring to my poll!
Hi Rodeo,

I wasn't responding to your poll. I was motivated by a poster who had made a decision not to buy a Soltice because of the recent photos of trunk space, without even test driving one. I think he said he was going to get an S2000.

My point is simple. I love the looks of the Solstice but the whole car has to please me. Looks, cost, performance, practicality, comfort, range, ergonomics, intangibles and image. My decision will be a total one. I think people really do themselves a disservice by chosing a car or rejecting a car without a test drive, because ergonomics are very important and something you will be dealing with every single day. If you buy a beautiful car but the seats really hurt your back, the pedals are in the wrong place and the steering wheel is too close, you may end up really hating the car.

So in my case, I want to test drive these cars for fit before I make my final decison. Don't get me wrong, I WANT A SOLSTICE. It is way on the top of my list. I am merely saying, I'm not ready to order one and commit to its purchase without even a test drive to see how it fits me and how it performs. I'm going to test it along with all of the competition before I make up my mind. And yes, the low price tag is a big factor in its favor.

PS - Just a note... I will not be dissuaded by the lack of trunk space alone. I took a 60 day road trip on a Harley Davidson and I'm pretty sure the passenger seat and foot well will hold a goodly amount more than I could pack on the Harley. So that's not a deal-breaker for me.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
4,592 Posts
jimbo said:
Hi Rodeo,

I wasn't responding to your poll. I was motivated by a poster who had made a decision not to buy a Soltice because of the recent photos of trunk space, without even test driving one. I think he said he was going to get an S2000.

My point is simple. I love the looks of the Solstice but the whole car has to please me. Looks, cost, performance, practicality, comfort, range, ergonomics, intangibles and image. My decision will be a total one. I think people really do themselves a disservice by chosing a car or rejecting a car without a test drive, because ergonomics are very important and something you will be dealing with every single day. If you buy a beautiful car but the seats really hurt your back, the pedals are in the wrong place and the steering wheel is too close, you may end up really hating the car.

So in my case, I want to test drive these cars for fit before I make my final decison. Don't get me wrong, I WANT A SOLSTICE. It is way on the top of my list. I am merely saying, I'm not ready to order one and commit to its purchase without even a test drive to see how it fits me and how it performs. I'm going to test it along with all of the competition before I make up my mind. And yes, the low price tag is a big factor in its favor.

PS - Just a note... I will not be dissuaded by the lack of trunk space alone. I took a 60 day road trip on a Harley Davidson and I'm pretty sure the passenger seat and foot well will hold a goodly amount more than I could pack on the Harley. So that's not a deal-breaker for me.
No worries mate :thumbs I'm a "not going to take one till they fix some of those things", and I have a hold-me-over for just that purpose (see my personal pge in the signature). So I'm on your side, I was making the point for those that will order without seeing first!

Happy Football :jester
 

·
Mod Emeritus
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
I understand where you are coming from Jimbo, and if the remaining questions about the car are weighing on your mind, you are certainly making the right decision to wait to get your hands on an example before deciding.

Solsticeman also explained one big factor in people who will/are pre-ordering. Its a reasonable trust that GM will deliver on a car they will enjoy in the areas important to them, based on the information we already know.

I am considering pre-ordering a Solstice. I have not committed to that yet, and may end up waiting until I drive one in person, but I am leaning towards pre-ordering it.

For me, I am reasonably convinced that the ergonomics of the car, the seating position, the driving experience, etc will be fully satisfactory for my driving demands and expectations of a roadster in the low $20's price range. I don't really see anything that would really surprise me and become a deal breaker.

Now, I will admit my main attractions to the car is that it is a great looking car, and that it is being produced by GM. Being a smidge faster than the next Miata isn't really a factor for me, or outhandling it on a skidpad by one or two hundreths of a g, or a second on an autocross course. Its going to be in the ballpark, if not at the front. That works for me. Based on the cockpit it sure looks like the interior will be fine, ergonomics will be good.

So, unless I get behind the wheel and it drives like a Ford F-150, or rattles itself apart on a test drive, I cannot imagine being surprised by anything that would cause me to change my mind.

If I do wait, it will be because I have not decided how to fit it into my fleet of vehicles yet. I currently have my Fiero, which I will be keeping regardless. I want to get into restoring it to at least a much better condition than it is now, and its not really worth enough on the open market to make selling it worthwhile anyway. However, I am yet to decide if I want to keep my 2002 Wrangler as a winter whip, or drive the Solstice. The Sol's actual ground clearance is a major factor here, but I have to really see it before I can decide if I want to give it a shot or not over a winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Style is not the only reason to make a car. If GM tries to sell this car just on style points I will be waiting until fall and buying one of the deeply discounted lot lizzards. This car needs to have driver appeal, style and some level of function. Right now I would only buy this car if I needed to look cool on my way to the track for a weekend of racing. Then I could only wonder if this car could best the miatas. I know one thing, I couldn't carry my helmet in the trunk.

Without function this car will go the way of the MR2 spyder in two model years. The target production was 20k units a year and GM will never see that if the car is only good for cruising down to the next Solsice gathering so we can tell each other how stylish our cars are.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
4,592 Posts
dav8or said:
Style is not the only reason to make a car. If GM tries to sell this car just on style points I will be waiting until fall and buying one of the deeply discounted lot lizzards. This car needs to have driver appeal, style and some level of function. Right now I would only buy this car if I needed to look cool on my way to the track for a weekend of racing. Then I could only wonder if this car could best the miatas. I know one thing, I couldn't carry my helmet in the trunk.

Without function this car will go the way of the MR2 spyder in two model years. The target production was 20k units a year and GM will never see that if the car is only good for cruising down to the next Solsice gathering so we can tell each other how stylish our cars are.
dav8or, be sure to vote in this poll
http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1028
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
dav8or said:
Without function this car will go the way of the MR2 spyder in two model years. The target production was 20k units a year and GM will never see that if the car is only good for cruising down to the next Solsice gathering so we can tell each other how stylish our cars are.
I agree with most of this, but I think they'll hold out longer than 2 model years. 20k per year 'aint gunna happen if they don't get some more creative packaging going on. I get the argument that the low cost means we have to live with a simple gas tank smack dab in the middle of the trunk, and style to a fault means we have to muck around everytime we want to get in the trunk with the top up, but this car will be compared to the Miata for the rest of it's life, and for most people the Miata is a very easy car to live with at very low cost. Some don't fit in a Miata, but most do. Time will tell if people are willing to overlook the obvious flaws in design for the sake of looking very cool, and wheather Bob gets to keep his job.

Things they could do? Get the tank out of the trunk (if I have to pay more for a hidden tank option, well gladly!!), ditch the AFB things on the top and promise a coupe. Of course all of this is based on a pre-production proto type and could be they have changed all these problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I can't understand it either...

Oh, don't ear me wrong, I mean I can't understand GM/Pontiac holding this any longer it is either surprising good or stupid...

I agree I might wait to drive one before committing myself. But I will never preorder a $28k Can toy just on a brochure and worst with no complete details...

What I mean by stupid move by GM is spring is coming for sure, people are visiting car shows everywhere and they are missing the boat of showing off their (complete) car! The top will be on my car most of the time, I won't leave it top less when I am not in it!, I won't drive 24hr /7days a week assuming sunny days and night! So it is a crucial part of it.

In the meanwhile I do shop for used Z3 or Z4, and I will choose a BMW in the blink of an eye (even a slightly used one) over Pontiac and will pay more for it... if I find my match! unless Pontiac gets wiser and put their cards down...

The news is either very stupid or very clever...
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
dav8or said:
Style is not the only reason to make a car.
No, but make no mistake, my rabid interest in this car is it's phenomenal looks that could have come straight from Pinanfarina. We have had a 20 year drought in affordable auto design. What isn't mind-numblingly worn-bar-of-soap bland resulting from the slavish devotion to cab-forward design, is Japanese-styled psudo-oragami design with wildly creased angles, bends, folds, circles, bubbles and humps all in unharmonius disarray.

It took Chrysler to even begin the trend toward gorgeous styling on everyday cars. Do you remember when the Dodge Viper first hit the street? I was drooling. Then I found out I could afford a home easier than the Viper. What if Dodge had made a competitor for the Camaro that was styled like the Dodge Viper Coupe. You can bet every single one of us would have begged for one, even if it was slower, less comfortable and less nimble than a Camaro, because you just wanted to have that gorgeous car!

I understand your point that it does take more than styling, and with the new ground-up design, GM is giving us that.

dav8or said:
Without function this car will go the way of the MR2 spyder in two model years.
I beg to differ. Sales numbers will indeed be hurt by any lack of practicality, including minimal storage space and cumbersome roof operation. But if the Solstice is reliable, comfortable, sporty and solidly built of good quality - I predict it will still find strong sales well into the future. You are right that it will turn off some buyers who really need to pack their golf clubs in the trunk, but there will be just as many who carry their clubs in the passenger seat on the way to the links. JMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
[this car will be compared to the Miata for the rest of it's life, and for most people the Miata is a very easy car to live with at very low cost. Some don't fit in a Miata, but most do. Time will tell if people are willing to overlook the obvious flaws in design for the sake of looking very cool, and wheather Bob gets to keep his job.[/QUOTE]

When R/T and Motortrend do the story they will have a Miata right there and I am sure they will point out all of the Solstice's short comings. Not only do you compare with new cars but used cars in the same price range. I bought my wife's Z3 three years ago, now with 35k on the odometer it would bring 23-25k. It has a power top, 3.0l 6cyl engine and a trunk that will fit two small overnight bags. So for a small market share GM has a tough battle ahead of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
bmwtourer said:
........................................................................................

In the meanwhile I do shop for used Z3 or Z4, and I will choose a BMW in the blink of an eye (even a slightly used one) over Pontiac and will pay more for it... if I find my match! unless Pontiac gets wiser and put their cards down...

The news is either very stupid or very clever...
Hey, stick around.. I'll probably have a lightly used 2003 BMW Z4 2.5i for sale next year.. :lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,210 Posts
Skyward said:
Hey, stick around.. I'll probably have a lightly used 2003 BMW Z4 2.5i for sale next year.. :lol
Skyward, you don't like the Z4 anymore? Just curious what's your reasons?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,844 Posts
What I mean by stupid move by GM is spring is coming for sure, people are visiting car shows everywhere and they are missing the boat of showing off their (complete) car! The top will be on my car most of the time, I won't leave it top less when I am not in it!, I won't drive 24hr /7days a week assuming sunny days and night! So it is a crucial part of it.
I agree but let me add that, besides the top and trunk questions, with it now appering to be in dealers in just roughly SIX MONTHS, I had hoped they would let people sit in the carshow versions to at least answer their questions on ergonomics. But at least I'll be able to actually see one for the first time when the car show comes to Houston next week!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
DreamerDave said:
I agree but let me add that, besides the top and trunk questions, with it now appering to be in dealers in just roughly SIX MONTHS, I had hoped they would let people sit in the carshow versions to at least answer their questions on ergonomics. But at least I'll be able to actually see one for the first time when the car show comes to Houston next week!
Next week? Where? How much? I live next to the Reliant dome and I had no idea. Someone else in Houston fill me in! I wanna see the Sky/Solstice in person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
mceb said:
Skyward, you don't like the Z4 anymore? Just curious what's your reasons?
Nope, I love my Z4, but I took delivery in late 2002 and it has a 4 year warranty which expires end 2006, so I either start to look for a replacement or I buy an additional 2 years extended warranty.
The Z4 has been and is a great roadster in just about every respect, but I generally trade every 3 years, so holding onto my Z4 til mid-end 2006 will already be a bit of a record for me.
That said, I was planning to go with the 2 year warranty extension on the Z4 until I saw pics of the upcoming Saturn Sky.
Assuming that the Sky has sufficient cabin room for me and trunk capacity meets my minimal needs, I'm pretty sure I'll be going for it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,364 Posts
It took Chrysler to even begin the trend toward gorgeous styling on everyday cars. Do you remember when the Dodge Viper first hit the street? I was drooling. Then I found out I could afford a home easier than the Viper. What if Dodge had made a competitor for the Camaro that was styled like the Dodge Viper Coupe.
Saturn/GM just did and it is called the SKY, and that is why I will buy one, It is the styling for me and not the trunk or top operation. :jester
 

·
Mod Emeritus
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Trunk space will be a turnoff for some people, but how many people we don’t really know. A comparison to the MR2 is not fair since it sold at a level close to what Toyota really had expected. They only planned on importing around 2000 per year, which is close to its sales level. With the weakening of the dollar, it no longer is cost effective to bring it to the states. They are still making it for sale in Japan.

The Miata is certainly the car it will be cross shopped with. However, at GM’s target sales range I am not sure its going to be compared to competitors all that much anyway. GM is trying to more than double the low priced roadster market. So they are looking for new buyers who are not interested in Miatas at all. Since they are not buying Miatas anyway, unfavorable trunk space dimensions in comparison to the Mazda may not be as big of a factor.

My biggest worry for the success of the car is that the small trunk space will not bring in as many new buyers to the roadster market as GM is hoping for.

One other thought, if its shaped decently it may also be more useable than the Miata’s because that car has a rather shallow trunk. I know the showcar has a weird box in the middle, and it looks useless. However, someone suggested that the production model would be a little different inside.

We’ll see in a few months I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
Fformula88 said:
My biggest worry for the success of the car is that the small trunk space will not bring in as many new buyers to the roadster market as GM is hoping for.

One other thought, if its shaped decently it may also be more useable than the Miata’s because that car has a rather shallow trunk. I know the showcar has a weird box in the middle, and it looks useless. However, someone suggested that the production model would be a little different inside.

We’ll see in a few months I guess.
You mean in six months when we go to the dealership and pick them up! :lol Now that the NAIAS has happened, I'm starting to agree with others here, the top and trunk probably suck, and they don't want anyone to say anything bad about them until the last moment, by then they probably hope to have a good little buzz about the car that maybe will off set the negative. Or maybe not. They might still be working on a way out of a design corner they have gotten themselves in.

You mentioned the MR2 and Toyota's sales expectations for it. I think Toyota had such low expectations for it because they correctly summised that about 2000 trunkless roadsters is all you can sell in America. I think the Solstice will initialy sell much better than that because it looks so damb good and the MR2 was hideous looking, but after they get the reputaion as just a toy or plaything rather than a useful car, and everyone is used to looking at them, sales will taper way off. 20k a year?? No way! Can't see it. :(
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top