Joined
·
200 Posts
Has anyone discussed the issue of NO undercoatings on the Solstice ?
Pro's vs. Con's ? Anyone undercoated theirs ?
Pro's vs. Con's ? Anyone undercoated theirs ?
Undercoating
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Joined
·
20,129 Posts
Joined
·
200 Posts
Must be old school of thoughts then. Green painted chassis seems as if they had forgotten to coat it. Now oiling or waxing the under chassis . That's just odd ! :willy:
Joined
·
2,252 Posts
yeah, that's a thing of the past. and if not done correctly will actually promote rust. seems the dealerships all have their own little extra's which mearly gives them a little extra work and profit.
Joined
·
3,485 Posts
The Sol is the first "new"car I have ever owned. Always went "used" prior to this. Therefore when I bought her I had the dealership rust proof her before I took possession. I figured I am going to have her forever so might as well even though she is stored and parked every winter.:thumbs::willy::thumbs:. When I have her in for service at the dealership I never let them wash or detail my car. Only I do that.:devil: However, I do ask my mechanic at the dealership to spray wash the under carriage when he has it on the hoist once a year. 
Joined
·
2,252 Posts
I'd love to be able to give the underneath a good cleaning more than I usually do. I do however if I go to the beach or drive on a dirt road or thru roadwork areas, I set the sprinkler under the car and let it run for a good 20 minutes. you'd be surprised at the stuff left over on the driveway afterwards.
Joined
·
2,252 Posts
I know what it is. VODKA!
Joined
·
1,571 Posts
WD 40 now sells a dedicated DIY rust proofing spray that tested about as good as the Canadian oil treatments. You have to apply it every Fall though. Check Amazon for the best prices on the stuff.
Since the real rust damage occurs from the inside out, I'm wondering how how our car's foam filled chassis sections will hold up over time. Will the foam act as a rust barrier or a rust collector?
Since the real rust damage occurs from the inside out, I'm wondering how how our car's foam filled chassis sections will hold up over time. Will the foam act as a rust barrier or a rust collector?
Joined
·
7,273 Posts
Yeesh. I have lots to learn. Any diagrams of where the foam is employed? I've googled a bit but haven't found any specifics.
I'm sure the foaming material used would be closed cell and non-hygroscopic. BUT that doesn't mean it couldn't trap and hold moisture if it were to enter. My '02 Ford F250 started blistering under the paint at the rear wheel wells after about 6-7 years which really bothered me as I kept that thing almost as clean as I keep the Sol now. As it rusted through I realized the design used a piece of closed cell foam rubber glued to the steel and the inner fender liner. Even though the foam wouldn't absorb moisture, it made a nice little ridge for dirt, and therefore moisture, to accumulate and it ate it from the inside out.
Whoever thought that would work needs to find another profession.
I'm sure the foaming material used would be closed cell and non-hygroscopic. BUT that doesn't mean it couldn't trap and hold moisture if it were to enter. My '02 Ford F250 started blistering under the paint at the rear wheel wells after about 6-7 years which really bothered me as I kept that thing almost as clean as I keep the Sol now. As it rusted through I realized the design used a piece of closed cell foam rubber glued to the steel and the inner fender liner. Even though the foam wouldn't absorb moisture, it made a nice little ridge for dirt, and therefore moisture, to accumulate and it ate it from the inside out.
Whoever thought that would work needs to find another profession.
Joined
·
20,129 Posts
The cars come with a rust warranty. the manufacturers take significant measures to prevent rust. One of the issues with after market undercoating materials is that some of the rust inhibiting steps include providing multiple drain passages to prevent trapped water creating oxidation over long time exposure. Poorly applied undercoating can block the drains and thus contribute to rust.
The materials used in modern cars is to a great extent rust resistant naturally, but for those materials which are subject to rust, they are treated to protect them as part of the manufacturing process
Here are a few tidbits I found interesting
in any corrosion situation four things needed to exist in order for corrosion to take place. you need an anode, you need a cathode (these can be different grains or a grain and an inclusion of the same part), you need an electrolyte (water is almost always the electrolyte) for the generated hydroxyl ions to flow through, and you need an electrical return path for the electrons to flow in. remove/disrupt any of those four and no corrosion will take place. paint serves as both an insulator (between different parts but not when both anode and cathode are the same part) and a barrier to the electrolyte. zinc serves as a sacrificial anode that will corrode preferentially to surrounding steel but it's life is limited. corrosion in autos is almost always due to design tradeoffs that trap moisture and chlorides (road salt)which in the presence of water increase the production of hydroxyl ions if my corrosion training is being remembered correctly.
It used to common to see cars less than 6 years old with noticable 'edge' or door bottom rusting. Any more it is rare on cars less than 15 years old. My '92 Carprice was spotless when I sold it last year. My '96 Ford and '96 Volvo are both spotless (at least as far as rust goes). And this is all in the upper mid-west.
This is largely attributable to plastic trim (no holes and no galvanic action), stainless trim and exhaust, two side galvanized bodys, and better paints.
The materials used in modern cars is to a great extent rust resistant naturally, but for those materials which are subject to rust, they are treated to protect them as part of the manufacturing process
Here are a few tidbits I found interesting
in any corrosion situation four things needed to exist in order for corrosion to take place. you need an anode, you need a cathode (these can be different grains or a grain and an inclusion of the same part), you need an electrolyte (water is almost always the electrolyte) for the generated hydroxyl ions to flow through, and you need an electrical return path for the electrons to flow in. remove/disrupt any of those four and no corrosion will take place. paint serves as both an insulator (between different parts but not when both anode and cathode are the same part) and a barrier to the electrolyte. zinc serves as a sacrificial anode that will corrode preferentially to surrounding steel but it's life is limited. corrosion in autos is almost always due to design tradeoffs that trap moisture and chlorides (road salt)which in the presence of water increase the production of hydroxyl ions if my corrosion training is being remembered correctly.
It used to common to see cars less than 6 years old with noticable 'edge' or door bottom rusting. Any more it is rare on cars less than 15 years old. My '92 Carprice was spotless when I sold it last year. My '96 Ford and '96 Volvo are both spotless (at least as far as rust goes). And this is all in the upper mid-west.
This is largely attributable to plastic trim (no holes and no galvanic action), stainless trim and exhaust, two side galvanized bodys, and better paints.
Joined
·
4,429 Posts
The foam/adhesive if I am reading this right is used in place of welding the undercarriage panels together.If you don't drive your car in salty conditions like we have here in Ohio I can't really see a problem.I restored a Lincoln Towncar (don't laugh)a few years back and it was undercoated the frame was OK but all the lines were rotted from moisture where the undercoating had turned brittle ,dried and trapped water .A friend of mine has an XR7 supercharged Cougar that he bought new and twice a year he sprays the underneath with WD 40 a little extreme ? maybe but his undercarriage is like new including all his bushings.There were people around here who used to spray drain oil on your chassis till the EPA got involved and put a stop to it. There is a lot to be said for this ,if you have ever changed your oil especially on an older car you know the area around the drain pan always looks good, my 2 cents.Just read Rob 's post and he brings up some really good points the most important one I think is the fact that after a while the rustproofing clogs the drain holes and how many people are going to take the time to open them up.
Joined
·
1,571 Posts
My '97 Cavalier commuter/family knock-around car still looks like new from the outside so I have faith in GM's gavanized body panel processes. Even the rocker panels and door bottoms are all intact.
Despite being carefull with flushing out the bottom of the car each spring, there are still some major rust issues going on though. Over the past few years, I've had to redo various sections of the car's brake lines. They seem to like to fail where the tubing connects to the fittings.
Otherwise, the car's engine cradle and box sections that mount the rear bumper member now look like swiss cheese. The gas tank also looks like it'll need replacement in a year or two. It's odd how all the rest of the car seems perfect though.
I'm wondering if the new road salt pretreatment solution that has been used by all the towns here in Northern NJ starting about 5 years ago has something to do with it. The stuff doesn't just hose off but needs to be scrubbed off the bottom of the car instead. Unfortunately, no matter how carefull I am, there's to way to clean the top of the gas tank and the inside of a lot of body parts each spring.
Despite being carefull with flushing out the bottom of the car each spring, there are still some major rust issues going on though. Over the past few years, I've had to redo various sections of the car's brake lines. They seem to like to fail where the tubing connects to the fittings.
Otherwise, the car's engine cradle and box sections that mount the rear bumper member now look like swiss cheese. The gas tank also looks like it'll need replacement in a year or two. It's odd how all the rest of the car seems perfect though.
I'm wondering if the new road salt pretreatment solution that has been used by all the towns here in Northern NJ starting about 5 years ago has something to do with it. The stuff doesn't just hose off but needs to be scrubbed off the bottom of the car instead. Unfortunately, no matter how carefull I am, there's to way to clean the top of the gas tank and the inside of a lot of body parts each spring.
Joined
·
5,172 Posts
Cars and trucks are now built with drain holes... This allows the dirt and grime...and water to run out. If you undercoat your newer car (2000+) you are plugging those holes. Thus creating more of a chance at rusting then not doing it. Paint today is also WAY better then it was 20 years ago.
Joined
·
4,429 Posts
njtex: Don't know if it's the same stuff they use here in Ohio but I have a friend who works for ODOT and the stuff they pretreat the roads with is a brine which is basically a water and salt mixture that they spray on the roads before it snows .The problem with this stuff is that it coats the undercarridge of a car and is hard to get it all off . I know in some counties they are using beet juice (don't laugh google it) they also use a liquid that is a brine byproduct that is used in gas drilling but from what I have read there are EPA issues with this stuff because of all the crap in it.
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
You won't plug the holes with the products I described earlier. They aren't a permanent sealant (which I assume you are alluding to), rather light to light medium weight oil sprays.
Also, if you think the newer water based paints are better than the older oil based, ur crazy. :willy: :grouphug:
Joined
·
1,571 Posts
That's the stuff I'm talking about. If you just try to hose it off, it still leaves a white haze when dry. The only way to get it off is to jack up and slide under the car and use water, rags, and brushes.
I wonder if someone makes a salt neutralizer solution for the road pretreatment. I've looked but haven't found any.
When I was a kid, the owner of the gas station that I worked at hosed off the bottom of all his vehicles each spring with a 50/50 mix of kerosene and water.
Saltawayproducts.com
www.saltawayproducts.com
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
