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V6 Engine swap

33K views 67 replies 21 participants last post by  agent008 
#1 ·
Lately I have been contemplating an engine swap on the 07 GXP due to some rough engine issues and the engine seeming like its nearing its end. After digging around the internet and GM's wiki I noticed that the 09 G8's had a 3.6l LY7 V6 engine that bolts up to the 5L40-E Automatic transmission, And wouldn't you know that's the same one in the solstice. Long story short with the weights checked the only thing I would need to figure out is the engine mounts however I would love some insight from everyone here on the forums if you think the swap would even be worth it.
 
#4 ·
Why would you go to all that effort for no increase in performance?

I think this would be a much more interesting swap: GM Releases 2019 Silverado Turbo 2.7L Four-Cylinder Engine Specs | GM Authority
I only came up with the idea because I saw one of the engines sitting in a G8 in the junkyard, It would be way less effort then any other swap considering it used the exact same trans, and the weight difference of the engine would effect the suspension little to none.
 
#3 ·
If it fits you must equip...

John,

Once I hit the electric water pump in the specs it got even more interesting. Such a novel approach. :grin: Will be interesting to see if it would fit in the Solstice and mate to a manual transmission. I'm not up on all th engines anymore, but is this the one to be offered, or is an option in the Camaro presently? When first reading about that, it seemed an interesting choice for the Solstice, rather than a V8. Good power to weight ratio and could propel our cars into the future as speedily, providing we can get things line weather stripping, etc. covered.

Richard Snipes
 
#14 ·
John,

Once I hit the electric water pump in the specs it got even more interesting. Such a novel approach. :grin: Will be interesting to see if it would fit in the Solstice and mate to a manual transmission. I'm not up on all th engines anymore, but is this the one to be offered, or is an option in the Camaro presently? When first reading about that, it seemed an interesting choice for the Solstice, rather than a V8. Good power to weight ratio and could propel our cars into the future as speedily, providing we can get things line weather stripping, etc. covered.

Richard Snipes
Somewhere in the article it states that the engine is truck-exclusive, so probably not a Camaro option, although I don't know why they would decide that.

I only came up with the idea because I saw one of the engines sitting in a G8 in the junkyard, It would be way less effort then any other swap considering it used the exact same trans, and the weight difference of the engine would effect the suspension little to none.
Unless you are intrigued by the novelty of doing it, and that is actually an acceptable (if not practical) reason in my mind, I think you would be far better off to simply invest in a new or NOS LNF, or totally rebuild the one you have.
 
#5 ·
I think you're just going to reduce the value of the car. I don't know what the future will bring but I suspect the turbo models are going to get up there in price and the closer to stock the better.
 
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#6 · (Edited)
I've never read a post on any of the Kappa forums for a V6 (other than a couple 2JZ swaps, so you'd be going it alone. Then there's the whole issue of figuring out how to get a different engine to work with the ECM and BCM or going with a stand alone unit.

The problem with engine swaps is the people that do them don't document how's it's done, so unless you are a gearhead or have very good friend that is a gearhead you may be looking at years to get your car back on the road. Sorry to say, but you'd be best served by buying a replacement engine.
 
#7 ·
Really no difference between the turbo 4 and V6 in terms of performance potential and as pointed out, you'd depreciate the car by doing an oddball swap, so why bother?

How many miles on your engine and why do you think it is nearing the end?
 
#10 ·
Hit 101k last week. It bogs a bit on light acceleration (already worked out with trifecta that it isn't the tune.) Smokes on warm startups and when coming to stoplights intermittently. Replaced the valve seals thinking they were bad but it didnt help, car still smokes. Replaced the turbo thinking it was the turbo seals.. Still smokes. Replaced the PCV valve inside the intake manifold, still smokes. tried running a catch can thinking the ventilation from the valve cover case was blowing out some oil, still smokes. Its definitely oil smoke too, the smell and color is very distinct of burnt oil. Between the above issues and random loss of power on acceleration something tells me the engine is not going to last much longer.
 
#12 ·
IF you really want to go the route of the V6, go with either a supercharged 3800 (you should be able to get 400+hp) -or- go oddball out and do a 3.5L eccoboost from Ford. You can get almost 700hp out of it if it's tuned correctly!!! I just saw an MKS that was dyno'd at 685hp with little to no mods... And torque was up there too...around 600 IMSMC. THAT would be a MONSTER!!!

I was working on a Fiero project with my ex-father-in-law. We had the body and he had a supercharged 3800....he promised he could get it to over 400hp so I could drag race with him. Needless to say, the project was never finished. That's a whole other story about why he's my ex-father-in-law.
 
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#13 ·
I say if that's what you want to do and you have the skills go for it. I once put a Buick 3.8 in an 84 Camaro just because I bought a Camaro with a dead 2.8 and happened to have the 3.8 that was in another car that had electrical problems. Of course that was a simpler swap because all I really needed was some time and a welder. Your swap could be challenging because of the electronics involved. Research what's involved in a modern swap and if you give it a try good luck. You will kill any value the car has but if you can do it cheaply enough and that's what you want, why not do it?
 
#15 ·
the 3800/3.8 liter is old tech.... as in super old tech block originally designed in the late 60's and revised in 76 for even firing. oiling system sucks as it is the same as they ran in the 60's. I ran a 330hp Buick V6 (naturally aspirated) in my Opel GT. 400 RWHP from a 3800 supercharged motor is easy. however the motor is still extremely old tech

since the LNF can trace its roots back to Opel as well as the Northstar, Short star and 3.6 liter in todays GM vehicles, I would stick with modern motors. a twin turbo 3.6 or its earlier 3.2 brethren would be a great motor

Plenty of Opel Calibras with twin turbo 3.2's putting out over 500hp and beaten daily

the V6 would be no different than swapping in an LS in these cars. its just bolts, imagination and determination with a little bit of fab work thrown in.
 
#19 ·
As was previously mentioned, I think you'll run into fit issues with the LY7. Th reason that the V8s fit is because they are pushrod, the LY7 being a DOHC puts extra height and width at the top of the engine structure. This is where packaging volume is at the highest premium in the Kappa engine bay.
 
#21 ·
raygun: I was responding to cammerjeff's comment about the L3B L-4 engine that I referenced in post 2 in which he said it was likely to be a tight fit in the Kappa engine bay.

The L3B has variable valve timing and lift which combined with the dual-volute turbocharged will give some incredible performance.
 
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#27 · (Edited)
(Earlier response deleted since it didn't really capture the "lag," as in time lag between action and result.)

Thanks, @JohnWR. You explained it much more clearly than I could have.


Though, if I could attempt to put it in simpler terms: lag is the difference between what you expect to happen, and what actually happens, when you mash the throttle. The difference is always more pronounced on a FI engine - way more so on a turbo vs SC or nitrous - vs an NA engine. Unless, of course, you're driving an Aspire uphill - but who would do that on purpose?
 
#28 ·
The LNF exhibits noticeable although not (to me) objectionable lag in its throttle response. Hit the throttle and the engine reacts ever so slightly later. In contrast the supercharged LE5 almost seems to anticipate the need for power: Touch the throttle and the power is already there with no detectable lag. The NA LE5 has no lag either, but the markedly lower power output makes it difficult to compare to the other two.
 
#29 ·
Not sure I am understanding you - do you believe that the NA Kappa is much easier to drive than the turbo Kappa?

We haven't really had much lag issue on turbo cars in recent years. I drove race car of a friend - turbo BMW 2002. The lag was so bad that you had to floor the accelerator about when you hit the corner apex in order for it to 'come on' by the time you exited the corner. Worst case I've ever driven.

The LNF in comparison has negligible lag, although those replacing the K04 with larger turbos will experience some.

I drove a Fiero that I had turboed for 20 years and it was one of the smoothest most forgiving cars I've owned.

I currently drive two high output sports cars, one turbo and one not and there is nothing to choose between them - drivability of both is excellent.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Not sure I am understanding you - do you believe that the NA Kappa is much easier to drive than the turbo Kappa?
Yes. My '06 was easier to drive on a track before the turbo kit, and more so than my GXP.

The NA was less entertaining due to being WAY, WAY underpowered, but much easier. By "easier," I mean more predictable. A good driver that's familiar with their car will compensate, and do well. But, and I hope you'd agree: having a jerk in torque when you're approaching an apex is not ideal.

On the other hand, there are many examples where this isn't a big deal, like the late model Boxters with turbo 4's. The engine architecture and management system are so good that lag is barely perceivable. Again, they did their best to make it act like an NA.

The electric assist systems mentioned earlier attempt to counter lag by sending compressed air into the intake before the turbo spools up. (My understanding is that they generally fail in just about every way imaginable.)

The difference between the BMW you mention and the GXP is lag. Sure, it's a really freaking heavy car, but...

The GXP has less lag. But, it's still there and, in my opinion hardly qualifies as negligible. My original point: I'd rather have no lag at all, which means alien technology, nitrous (blech), piping intake through a parallel dimension, or: an NA swap.
 
#31 ·
The ideal is the supercharger which really is instant power - ran one for awhile on a 4 cylinder MG. Only problem is that they run out of 'whoof' the higher the rpm.

I guess the slight lag that exists in well implemented turbos doesn't bother me much - must have become inured to it with the Fiero, which had a well chosen turbo but still showed a bit more lag than 21st century cars have.
 
#35 ·



Rough approximations taken off fully dressed engine
with top cover still on.

A-25" to front pulley, seems to be close to the same to the intake front (under the cover).

B-22 1/2" to top of engine cover, perhaps 1/2" to 1" clearance under it (hard to see center of pulley).

C-Approximately 6 3/4"( hard to see center of pulley) to 3" pan depth. It is another 5 3/4"+ from the 3" pan part to the bottom of the deep part of the sump, so a total of 12 1/2"+.

D- sump is deep at back, but only for approximately 5 1/4". This makes for transplant ease!

E- 9" at rear( see D above), 3" for front. ( Note slight inconsistancy with C measurement above - at most 1/4".

F-The widest point is oddly at the front bottom, due to the a/c and alternator being at the bottom. Perhaps they can be relocated. It is approximately 25 1/2".
 
#36 ·
Hi all,

I can see this thread has been still for a while now. I am a brand new user on this forum. I am from Brazil and currently negotiating on of the last Solstices for sale on the whole country. I have always loved this car but never had the money to buy it until now.

I just recently (5 days ago) let a lovely blue 2.4 manual 2006 Solstice slip away. The last option now is a silver Solstice, an automatic gearbox 2007 car , though it is a GXP.

The plan, had I bought a 2.4, was to try and swap a HFV6 into it. I have access to a junker Chevrolet Omega (Holden Commodore / Pontiac G8) with a 252hp 3.6 LY7 V6 in it that would be the donor car. It uses a Bosch ECU.

Why a V6? Well LS engines are near unobtainium in Brazil (we can't easily import used engines). And I have always loved the sound of a spiced-up sixer, it is exotic around here since most cars everyone buys come with puny 4 bangers.

Now with the GXP, I am still tempted to do the swap. And while at it, also change the gearbox to manual. I know, I know, the turbo engine is already more powerful than the LY7. Of course my LY7 would be built (cams and maybe a turbo or supercharger, if it ifts the engine bay), the goal is between 320-350hp.

Has anyone swapped a V6 into their cars? As far as it being an OHC engine, (and as such, a tall engine), the original 4 cylinder engines ar also tall, OHC affairs.

I'd appreciate any comments. Thanks!
 
#37 ·
That V6 would still be a come down from the many mildly modified GXPs with 400 bhp plus in them. And the advantage not offered by a non turbo engine is that when not operating under boost (which is most of the time) they use far less gas than a conventionally tuned engine. Plus you wouldn't be dealing with two different sets of computers - you would just get the LNF tuned and/or modified using the car's original computer.
 
#38 ·
Thanks for your quick reply!

You are most right, gathering from what I can see both domestically with VW 2.0T's which abound here and also by searching on many forums, factory turbo engines are usually a strong base for a whole lot of HP increase quite easily.

But something not the best tuned LNF (or any other 4 cylinder engine) in the world cannot ever expect to beat, is the sound. While V6's may sound pedestrian and cheap in North America, maybe even more so than a growly 4, I don't know man.... I still keep dreaming of a Sols with more than 4 cylinders. Even if an seemingly unreasonable thing to do. And one other advantage would be (I imagine) that the 3.6 could reach my power goal with a low pressure setup. I love the engine on the family's Volvo V50 T5, a low pressure larger displacement affair.

Thanks for being the voice of reason, and for making me feel welcome by responding so fast and wisely.

In case I do keep the LNF, I still plan though to do a manual conversion. Which I'll post about in a manual conversion thread, searching now.

Cheers
 
#39 ·
Welcome to the forum.

Bill is definitely correct about the practicality of staying with the LNF, the question is: How capable are you of doing this kind of sway? As he said, beyond the physical adaptation of the V6 is the computer integration, and neither aspect is trivial. If you can't do it yourself you will be at the mercy of whever you hire to do it, and that may not be a pleasant place to be, no matter how much you want it.
 
#40 ·
Welcome to the forum.
Thanks!

How capable are you of doing this kind of sway?
I work at our family-owned company. Firm has own mechanic and workshop which could be tapped into for the heavier, more difficult mechanical aspects of the job.
I am mechanical-savvy though very unexperienced but have already done other jobs in previous cars I owned.

The electronic part, should the ECU's be compatible, would have to be sorted by a hired person. Interestingly local locksmiths tend to be the best resource in making ECU, dash and keyfob talk to BCM so I'll be checking with a trusted local locksmith who has experience with GM cars.

I am sure this will be very difficult but am still willing to face the challenge since it will not be my daily driver.
 
#41 ·
Pssst.... a straight 6 engine sounds waaay better than a V6. You can put a Toyota 2JZ in there and they top out over 1000 bhp with suitable turbos and tuning. (y)
 
#42 ·
Remember me saying LS's are unobtainium in Brazil? Well, a 2JZ is even rarer :(

I never really understood the logic that supposedly makes V6's sound worse compared to inline 6es. i mean, don't they all havê onde explosion every 120 degrees of crank movement?

While researching about the HFV6 I found a video on YouTube of a guy's cammed V6 2015-ish Camaro. Sounded good. I think this LY7 I got a hold of could sound nice with cams and custom headers.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Good question. Not sure why the straight 6 usually sounds better, just that they do (understand if you don't have them readily available down there).

 
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