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Discussion Starter #1
:( Boy this doesn't sound very good. I sure hope the Solstice gives Pontiac the boost it needs!

In other words, barring a major turnaround in profitability, the odds are that GM will likely retire its poor-performing Buick and Pontiac divisions -- each of which have dwindled to less than 3 percent of the market. The remaining GM divisions will be consolidated and streamlined -- with the number of models reduced. More U.S. assembly and manufacturing facilities will be shuttered -- and more jobs moved overseas to take advantage of cheaper labor and lower regulatory compliance costs.

The sad part is that GM is producing some of the best vehicles it has ever built, with several models ranking as well as top-scoring Toyota/Lexus and other import vehicles in terms of customer satisfaction and the number of problems reported during the first 90 days of ownership. The 2005 Corvette comes standard with a 400 horsepower engine and equals or beats the performance of cars costing two to three times as much. Cadillac is once again a "hip" brand -- and the new Chevy Cobalt is an excellent small car as good as anything from Honda or Toyota.

Maybe even better.

Unfortunately, if may be too little, too late. The iceberg looms large in the lookout tower -- and it may impossible to steer away in time.

For consumers, GM's woes mean some great cars are available at even better prices -- especially if the new employee discounts become available across the board.

The only downside is there may not be a GM around in five or ten years.
 

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Where did you read this? Many articles have been floating around the last 3 months on the subject since Lutz mentioned that Buick and Pontiac where "damaged" brands. Lots of speculation followed in the press. Most of it has died down and GM announced their turn-around plans a couple of weeks ago (links somewhere in automotive forum).
 

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There has been talk about this ever since Oldsmobile was shut down, but I believe that they are planning on keeping Pontiac and Buick around at least for something like a 5 year plan giving them a chance to fight back.
 

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I think they need to just kill buick. Florida is a very big car market and a very big old people market "go figure." I flat out do not see buicks anymore. They are a dying breed and just need to pull the plug. Now pontiac I always see and the employee discount helped them A LOT! One of the local dealers to me has basically nothing on the lot left in comparasion to what they did before this deal so it helped.

My opinion if gm has their bullcrap quality undercontrol and with the sudden influx of pontiac buyers "gm across the board" pontiac can hold its own and perhaps even regain some ground.

The G6 should start to gain some market with the new 4 and 3.9 6 coming out. The new GXP is hot! and the solstice is well HOT! I think pontiac will be fine.

Oh and not to mention they are getting the torrent soon as well, which if it has any of the sucess the equinox has had itll help too!
 

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It's hard to believe Pontiac only gets 3% of market with all the Grand Am and Grand Prixs used by rental companies. Of course, now the GA is gone...
 

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maybe pontiac will turn into the pontiac-solstice division, a one car brand.
 

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Pontiac isn't going anywhere.

They've spend to much money on Pontaic that they would be throwing away litterally a billion dollars. They have 3 new prototype vehicles, the new Solstice, Torrent, G6, GXP, and Vibe. With this kind of line up, they'd be retarded to thow that away. Pontiacs name has gone up too. Yes, maybe the sales have deminished a little since last quarter 2002, but it's been steadily going up within the past 3 quarters.

The Solstice is going to sell big. Hopefully, close to as big as the first VW Bugs. (And we all know that's the most sold car in the world). The Solstice is inexpensive, good looking, and well designed. WHO can argue with that?

On top of this, GM is bringing back a few other cars, and there could be a good possibility that if the Camaro sells better then the Chevelle, Pontiac might have a shot at a new Firebird. :)

As I said, Pontiac isn't going anywhere.
 

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Maybe GM shouldn't have treated these lines like bastard stepchildren. They put way too much into the other brands but only 'just enough' for Pontiac and Buick (not enough for Olds). Each brand should have its own style or theme. But looking at the entire GM lineup, it's all the same except for Caddy. There is no distinction except for different body panels. Has GM lost touch with consumer needs?
 

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mceb said:
Where did you read this? Many articles have been floating around the last 3 months on the subject since Lutz mentioned that Buick and Pontiac where "damaged" brands. Lots of speculation followed in the press. Most of it has died down and GM announced their turn-around plans a couple of weeks ago (links somewhere in automotive forum).

I came across the same article today on AOL. Here it is in its entirety. The scary part is the bit about Toyota!
GM Offers Employee Discounts to Public
by Eric Peters

General Motors has announced it will extend the generous discounts on new vehicle purchases it provides as a perk to GM employees to the general public -- the latest effort to prop up flagging sales and declining market share.

The discount -- approximately 3-4 percent off the dealer invoice price of a new vehicle -- could amount to savings of thousands of dollars per vehicle.

The problem for GM, though, is that new and deeper discounts for buyers means even less profits for GM. And cutting profits won't dig GM out of the hole it's in.

First quarter losses are much larger than expected -- $846 million, according to GM CEO Rick Wagoner -- the largest quarterly loss since 1992. And GM's overall market share has dropped to about 25.4 percent, a dramatic downturn. The value of GM shares has fallen through the floor to junk bond status -- vitiating nearly $13 billion in shareholder equity.

Things are not looking good for the world's largest automaker. Inventories of vehicles are piling up on dealer lots, sales of high-profit large SUVs have fallen off as gas prices have gone up -- and several GM divisions (notably Pontiac and Buick) are close to being on life support .

In response, GM has cut production by 12 percent (with future cuts and plant closings in store) and resorted to extraordinary incentive programs that amount to fire sale prices, while competitors -- most notably Toyota, the world's Number Two automaker -- are selling cars at full mark-up and are awash in profit.

Toyota reportedly has enough cash on hand to buy GM's entire automotive operations outright -- and is gunning to replace GM as the world's Number One automaker within five years.

So what will happen to GM?

Morgan Stanley auto industry analyst Stephen Girsky says GM's declining market share "...doesn't support its size. They have too many plants, too many workers, too many models, too many dealers and their employee benefits are too high.”

In other words, barring a major turnaround in profitability, the odds are that GM will likely retire its poor-performing Buick and Pontiac divisions -- each of which have dwindled to less than 3 percent of the market. The remaining GM divisions will be consolidated and streamlined -- with the number of models reduced. More U.S. assembly and manufacturing facilities will be shuttered -- and more jobs moved overseas to take advantage of cheaper labor and lower regulatory compliance costs.

The sad part is that GM is producing some of the best vehicles it has ever built, with several models ranking as well as top-scoring Toyota/Lexus and other import vehicles in terms of customer satisfaction and the number of problems reported during the first 90 days of ownership. The 2005 Corvette comes standard with a 400 horsepower engine and equals or beats the performance of cars costing two to three times as much. Cadillac is once again a "hip" brand -- and the new Chevy Cobalt is an excellent small car as good as anything from Honda or Toyota.

Maybe even better.

Unfortunately, if may be too little, too late. The iceberg looms large in the lookout tower -- and it may impossible to steer away in time.

For consumers, GM's woes mean some great cars are available at even better prices -- especially if the new employee discounts become available across the board.

The only downside is there may not be a GM around in five or ten years.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
mceb said:
Where did you read this? Many articles have been floating around the last 3 months on the subject since Lutz mentioned that Buick and Pontiac where "damaged" brands. Lots of speculation followed in the press. Most of it has died down and GM announced their turn-around plans a couple of weeks ago (links somewhere in automotive forum).
This was on the AOL news. They were talking about how the influx of sales because of the deals were not helping GM because they were getting low profits. I do think Buick is a dead duck but I really do hope that Pontiac can hold on. I think they are really starting to improve. The big problem is buyer perception. For some people GM does not equal quality no matter what. Old ideas can be heard to break.
 

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GM has already announced they are committed to Buick and Pontiac, and that they are spending a lot of money this year and in the coming years to streamline and revitalize their lineups with fewer but better and more focused products.

GM will be consolidating dealers into Buick, Pontiac, GMC dealers, and specializing their product lines to prevent overlap between the three. In essence, each brand is going to try and be more of a niche brand instead of a broad based brand. The three together will create a full line of vehicles.

If Buick or Pontiac gets killed, it is going to be years down the road once this consolidation and product restructuring takes place. I have a feeling that it will be a few years after the RWD sedans and coupes finally hit market (think Zeta), and they won't be around until at least 2010 by most reports. (no, they are not completely dead as previously announced, and even if they are GM is looking at other RWD options anyway, they will come out with something).
 

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Here was the thread with GM's CEO outlining the recovery plan at the annual meeting couple weeks back.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2922

Pulled this bit out of that thread...Pontiac will be a niche brand.

* First, we are clarifying and focusing the role of each of our eight brands, giving them distinctive, clear, compelling roles in the GM portfolio. We start with our foundation brand Chevrolet in the mainstream of the market, and Cadillac at the premium end. Both of these brands are in good shape, and we have plans to make them even stronger. Our other six brands -- GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, Saab and Hummer -- will focus on targeted market niches, offering distinctive, differentiated products with easy-to-grasp brand promises. In some cases, such as Pontiac and Buick, it will mean fewer but stronger entries in the future.
 

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CoolOne2006 said:
The only downside is there may not be a GM around in five or ten years.
It bears reminding you that we are on the cusp of GM losing its complete and total dominance of the world market and slipping into the world's #2 automaker. I hardly see that as a portent of doom. GM is not on the edge of insolvency, just having trouble staying the world's largest seller of cars and trucks. They are far, far from insolvency and closing their doors. Not only that, but there is no complacency on their part. GM appears to be very aggressive in trying to recreate the company to build unique, desireable, quality cars and trucks. IMHO, there is no place for GM to go but up.

OTOH, they will continue to lose market share as all well as all other existing auto manufactures. The Koreans are up to speed making vehicles and the Chinese are going to shortly add their cars to all the British, French, Italian German cars & etc. The pie is being cut into smaller and smaller slices all the time. I'm surprised the Russians don't have an international auto company.

GM will continue to be a top car company in the future.
 

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May I suggest that the future of GM turns, at least in large measure, on how rapidly and successfully it can launch a new generation of cars with rear wheel drive, independent rear suspension, and overhead cam engines. Unfortunately, according to some info from my stockbroker, one of the first things GM announced after hitting the current hard times was elimination of one of its rear wheel drive platform programs. Corporate suicide! As a result, plans for a next-gen, all RWD line-up of Buicks is scrapped or at least on indefinite hold, and the planned American bodied, lighter GTO is in doubt. While GM appears to have cured most quality issues, the "boring factor" still is high in too many of its models.

Thanks,
Richard
 

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CoolOne2006 said:
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The only downside is there may not be a GM around in five or ten years.
Which means our Sols will be worth even more! :yesnod:
 

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The US goverment will not let GM turn into chrysler of the early 80's. The stock market depends on the auto industry to show a strong dollar. Since I work at a major Teir One auto supplier, I can say GM is finally doing what Toyato and Honda have been doing all along. The are trying to use parts that will work across many platforms. Also in the process they will be dropping weaker lines and focusing on lines that are top sellers. If this means certain brands have to go then they will be phased out. Olds and Buick are a key example. Why make something that competes with a brand you are already selling. Don't be surprised if Ford annouces similar actions.
 
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