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Oh wow, okay, I always figured it was bad to shift that close to the redline.
I drove my 2.4 to work today and have been testing it on the way home. I suggest that you shift from 2nd to 3rd at 5,000 to 5,500 RPM and see how that feels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I drove my 2.4 to work today and have been testing it on the way home. I suggest that you shift from 2nd to 3rd at 5,000 to 5,500 RPM and see how that feels.
Alrighty, I’m gunna go for a spin in a little bit here, I’ll let you guys know if I’m just an ignorant driver or not lololol
 

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4 cylinder engines rev higher then a typical v8. their power band is longer. most gasoline internal combustion engines hit their peak power output around 4250 RPM's. On a V8 typical redline is 5500 RPM's so shifting at 4000 to 5000 RPM's is really high. You have to remember that 4 cylinders do not have the same low end power output that a V8 has. If a V8 develops 100hp and 100tq at 1500 RPMs you aren't going to see that from the 4 cylinder until 3500 RPM's. What you do see from a typical 4cylinder is a much larger RPM window where the engine is producing close to peak output. On a V8 you have a 1000 RPM window, so if it starts at 4250 RPM you are going to be shifting almost at redline. On the Solstice if you shift 250 RPM's before redline you end up with a window that is 2 times larger. When really driving the car shifting at 5500 or 5750 RPM's is within the normal operating range of the engine and is OK to do. Of course you will shorten the life of the engine compared to shifting at 3000 RPM's but you also have to take into account the enjoyment factor. 3000 RPM = less fun.
 
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As has been posted before,you will enjoy the extra power you gain from a small improvement, get used to it and then... it's that "I just need a little" more that can get your wallet in trouble. I speak from experience
I agree 100%. It's an addiction. and if you are already having these types of conversations about wanting to add more power to the car and there is nothing done to it yet, it's not going to stop there. You will save a whole lot of money and also time if you just jump right in with both feet. Do the turbo kit and you can always turn it down if it is too much for ya. f ya don't have it you can't turn it up when you want it.


simple math

2000 / 15 = $133.33 cost per per hp
3500 / 230 = $10.86 cost per hp

IDK about you but I think that 10 bucks per pony is a whole lot nicer then 133 per pony.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Alrighty, I’m gunna go for a spin in a little bit here, I’ll let you guys know if I’m just an ignorant driver or not lololol
I did this and I did see a noticeable difference In how my acceleration panned out and it was nice, I still would like a little more. Which albeit is probably always going to be an issue with me, but it did feel a lot smoother shifting and rev matching it made it go straight from the get once I left off the clutch. It felt like it wanted to go a little more off the bat.
so thank you for the advice I like what I’m learning.
 

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Think about it. If 4k rpm is your peak power, revving much higher yields diminishing returns and lower has the engine working harder to get you back up to 4k. If you stay at 4k after a shift, you're maintaining peak power.
 

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Also, try to ensure you are using 91 octane. I'm with Wunderkind. I have a 2006 NA that has a solo axle back exhaust and I strictly run 91 octane. The sound and crackle is unbelievable. More than enough pep for me.
 

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Think about it. If 4k rpm is your peak power, revving much higher yields diminishing returns and lower has the engine working harder to get you back up to 4k. If you stay at 4k after a shift, you're maintaining peak power.
The prolem arises (especially with a 2-3 shift) that shifting from second at 4000 RPM puts you at 2500 RPM in third gear. Revving to 5000 RPM in 2nd puts you at 3000 in 3rd, and much higher on the torque curve. Beyond 5500 RPM the 2.4 (mine at least) is running out of air, so you get to diminishing returns. The turbo is a completely different story of course, as it will pull relatively hard right up to redline.

Also, try to ensure you are using 91 octane. I'm with Wunderkind. I have a 2006 NA that has a solo axle back exhaust and I strictly run 91 octane. The sound and crackle is unbelievable. More than enough pep for me.
I know that fuel is a contentious topic, but I can't help but say that I have had no problem running 87 octane in my NA. I have observed no knock retard, and no measurable loss of power, when testing with all three grades of the fuel available in my area, and when driving in this area. Other fuel supplies and other elevations may be different, of course.

My NA has a RL exhaust, and I do enjoy the sounds that result.
 

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Revving to 5000 RPM in 2nd puts you at 3000 in 3rd, and much higher on the torque curve. Beyond 5500 RPM the 2.4 (mine at least) is running out of air, so you get to diminishing returns.

I do agree with this and there is falloff after the engine makes peak power. But.... is the falloff a steeper slop then what is seen before the power band?? In most cases it is not and waiting until a higher RPM to shift will allow the next gear to start off closer to the engines peak power output. Need to look at a dyno log of a base model

You have to consider the rate of drop off above the 5000 rpm line. If you took that line and then mirrored it and lay it on over the line for below 4000 rpm what does it look like? Chances are the engine is still making more HP after 5000 rpms then the engine is before 4000 rpms. so shifting at 5000 which will drop you to 3500 at a point that the engine is producing less power then if you shifted at 5750 rpms and ended up at 4250 rpms right dead smack where the peak horse power is being made.

I would have to look at a base model dyno log to be able to tell you what the "sweet spot" is in the rpm range for shifting. and this sweet spot is going to change based o the gear you are coming out of and going into.
 
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The prolem arises (especially with a 2-3 shift) that shifting from second at 4000 RPM puts you at 2500 RPM in third gear. Revving to 5000 RPM in 2nd puts you at 3000 in 3rd, and much higher on the torque curve. Beyond 5500 RPM the 2.4 (mine at least) is running out of air, so you get to diminishing returns. The turbo is a completely different story of course, as it will pull relatively hard right up to redline.



I know that fuel is a contentious topic, but I can't help but say that I have had no problem running 87 octane in my NA. I have observed no knock retard, and no measurable loss of power, when testing with all three grades of the fuel available in my area, and when driving in this area. Other fuel supplies and other elevations may be different, of course.

My NA has a RL exhaust, and I do enjoy the sounds that result.
I agree I have never had an issue with running 87 Octane either. However, I do notice that 'response' is just slightly slower, particularly on the high way (where I drive mine the most) and I definitely get worse mileage on 87 octane. So the cost of premium gasoline is slightly offset by the improved mileage. Now this could all be mental by my thinking I need to hammer the throttle using 87 octane and thus making by mileage worse :).

In the end, I totally agree that if the OP is looking for noticeable power increases (ie: Dyno supported), Octane alone won't do it.
 

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This is my little sol. 2006 completely stock. I love this car I just wish it had a little more pep. I don’t expect a crazy power difference but I would like to know what would be better, going in on some expensive spark plugs, cold air intake and some new filters. Or, try my luck with either a trifecta, stage 3, or Vortex stage 3 chip( all plug and play).
what do we all think? View attachment 114909 View attachment 114908
CALL MARTIN AT RPM MOTORSPORTS, THEY HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED, FAST, AWESOME SERVICE AND THEY CAN REMOTE TUNE, ONLY A PHONECALL AWAY IN MESA AZ 602-899-3240 TELL HIM RON STUCK SENT YOU
 

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I just bought a 2008 NA and looking for a little more HP as well. There are so many threads on here saying there is no power to be easily gained. Why is that? All engines can be optimized a bit or a lot. Induction doesn't help the 2.4, exhaust doesn't help the 2.4, tune doesn't help the 2.4. Why is that. Back in the day I was able to get 10 extra HP by turning the air cleaner lid upside down on a big block car. Ha.
My car had a rusted out exhaust so I am in the process of putting in the Solo cat back. Looks awesome so far. I bought it from DDM Works primarily due to their reputation here. They say it is good for 10 hp. They also say their CAI is good for 10 HP on the 2.4. That should be 20 HP right there yet most here say that a 20 HP gain this cheap is impossible. Is DDM not being factual when they say you get the increase? going from 177 HP to 197 HP would be a decent noticeable bump.

I am just trying to reconcile why the board is pretty adamant there is no benefit to be gained yet a highly respected vendor says that is not the case.
 

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I just bought a 2008 NA and looking for a little more HP as well. There are so many threads on here saying there is no power to be easily gained. Why is that? All engines can be optimized a bit or a lot. Induction doesn't help the 2.4, exhaust doesn't help the 2.4, tune doesn't help the 2.4. Why is that. Back in the day I was able to get 10 extra HP by turning the air cleaner lid upside down on a big block car. Ha.
My car had a rusted out exhaust so I am in the process of putting in the Solo cat back. Looks awesome so far. I bought it from DDM Works primarily due to their reputation here. They say it is good for 10 hp. They also say their CAI is good for 10 HP on the 2.4. That should be 20 HP right there yet most here say that a 20 HP gain this cheap is impossible. Is DDM not being factual when they say you get the increase? going from 177 HP to 197 HP would be a decent noticeable bump.

I am just trying to reconcile why the board is pretty adamant there is no benefit to be gained yet a highly respected vendor says that is not the case.
TRY RPM MOTORSPORTS IN MESA AZ. MY 09 GXP IS A KILLER SET UP!!! TALK TO MARTIN, GOOD LUCK
 

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The GXP's are "easier" to significantly upgrade than the N/As.
Anything is possible, just how much time and money you want to throw at it :)

The general consensus seems to be, pound for pound, doing the full monty upgrade to an NA ends up being equal to or more than what you will spend to see similar performance numbers versus just getting a GXP to start.

Keep in mind the GXP has 100hp head start on an N/A and that's with an very conservative tune by GM.

Of course, if you got your NA at a great deal, then maybe the investment makes sense. Also, it's your car, have at it!
 

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The GXP's are "easier" to significantly upgrade than the N/As.
Anything is possible, just how much time and money you want to throw at it :)

The general consensus seems to be, pound for pound, doing the full monty upgrade to an NA ends up being equal to or more than what you will spend to see similar performance numbers versus just getting a GXP to start.

Keep in mind the GXP has 100hp head start on an N/A and that's with an very conservative tune by GM.

Of course, if you got your NA at a great deal, then maybe the investment makes sense. Also, it's your car, have at it!
LOOK, JUST TRYING TO HELP DUDE, TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH OR DRIVE A SLOW PILE OF ****, UP TO YOU. HORSEPOWER DOESNT COME CHEAP. IVE BEEN STREET RACING FOR YEARS! THE GXP BASE IS A GOOD PLACE TO START, PARETS ARE EZ TO FIND, BUT YA GOTTA BREAK DOWN AND GET IT TUNED. DONT EXPECT A BUNCH OF "BOLT ONS" TO GET YOU WHERE YOU WANT TO BE WITHOUT A DAMN TUNE. NOTHING IS CHEAP!!! OTHERWISE GET USED TO A NICE LOOKING CAR WITH ZERO BALLS!! QUIT WHINING ABOUT "HOW MUCH" UNTIL YOU TALK TO MARTIN. THEN DECIDE, CURB QUEEN, OR A FAST SOB
 

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When GM designed the LE5 engine (2.4l) and put it into the Solstice they focused on getting as much as they could from the engine and staying within a budget. So things like a free flowing exhaust and a cold air intake are already in the car and the ECM has been tuned from the factory to take advantage of these things. There are aftermarket parts that do perform better then the ones from the OE but the gains are going to be very minor a couple HP here and here that in the end don't make a whole lot of sense to do considering cost.

You have a later generation LE5 and that engine is built different then the ones from 2006. The 2006 cars have engines in them that have forged pistons and rods and are able to accept 20PSI of boost and turns the car onto a monster. This is well worth doing because the HP output would be much higher then what a stock GXP is and the cost of doing + the cost of the car makes it about the same as buying a GXP. In later years the engines no longer have forged rods and pistons and can only have 9psi of boost added. This gives a power output of about 300HP which is pretty close to a GXP. the cost of the turbo kit + the cost of the car is the same as the previous example and it puts you right at at the same price for a GXP. Once you factor in labor to install the kit it doesn't make sense to do it for a newer base model because that puts the price point higher then what it would be of you just bought a GXP.
 
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What DDM works doesn't tell you is that in order to get those gains you are looking at 1000.00 for a CARB compliant high flow cat, 800.00 for an exhaust 300.00 for a CAI and 450.00 for a tune.

put that together and you get 2550.00 dollars spent to get 20HP. for 3000.00 you can get anywhere from 125 to 225 HP. what makes more sense?
 

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It's not like the days of old when you could simply change the exhaust and you would have the gain. The ECM's are designed so that if the engine is not operating to a pre defined set of parameters the ECM will makes changes until it is operating within those parameters essentially learning away any performance gained from the part. you must have a tune performed to change those parameters each time you add something new that is supposed to give you more power.
 
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