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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I have experience with DI Turbo Diesels and port injected FI gas motors, but was wondering how the LNF differed.

Ex.

Take an LNF with CAI, Charge tubes, HF Cat, and a nice tune. I would assume I could upgrade the intercooler without an issue. Is this correct?

I know if I upgraded cams (with fuel lobe) I would need a new tune, but what about just valves and springs? Would that hurt the stock cam? I know some can be sensitive to extra spring resistance.

Thanks

:)
 

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Read the threads about tunes.

Nothing adds power without a tune because the factory tune will always return 260 ft pounds.

A tune and high flow cat will take you to 300+ hp and 400 torque at the wheels

The stock air filter is very efficient. A CAI only adds noise. Charge tubes delay roll off but don't add hp. The IC works well for the street. Unless you heat soak it, but adding a bigger IC helps maintain power, not add.

5 speed is ok to 400 hp then the syncros fail
To get to 400 hp get tune, HF cat, and charge tubes, and big wheel kit.

Some go to meth injection.
Check intake valves for carbon deposits every 30,000 miles. Add an oil catch can and DDM brace bundle

If you rebuild internals hp limit I've very much higher but need to address transmission and axles
 

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Hi,

I have experience with DI Turbo Diesels and port injected FI gas motors, but was wondering how the LNF differed.

Ex.

Take an LNF with CAI, Charge tubes, HF Cat, and a nice tune. I would assume I could upgrade the intercooler without an issue. Is this correct?

I know if I upgraded cams (with fuel lobe) I would need a new tune, but what about just valves and springs? Would that hurt the stock cam? I know some can be sensitive to extra spring resistance.

Thanks

:)
From my understanding....

Why would you just replace vavles and springs? The only thing that will do for you will be higher revs. Right now the springs are good to about 7k safely.... And why a bigger fuel lobe without a bigger turbo? The stock lobe is good for all that can be thrown at it unless your going full e85. My take on it is this....if your going bigger cams, valves and springs....do it right and do rods and pistons right away with a bigger turbo. What you stated replacing without going bigger turbo won't net you much of a gain for the amount of money you want to spend.
 

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5 speed is ok to 400 hp then the syncros fail
Wow....I learned something new....didn't know the transmission had issues after only 400hp.... :thumbs:
 

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He bought my old car with all of parts so the rods and pistons are in that bunch of parts. DDM Dave told me that you should retune for the IC.
 

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If it has the DDM tune, then yes. Retuning is in order. I am not aware of any instance where adding an intercooler added HP. Does not mean it has not happened but I have not read about it. I had the DeJon IC on my car when it was boosted but was never aware of any increase in HP.
 

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If it has the DDM tune, then yes. Retuning is in order. I am not aware of any instance where adding an intercooler added HP. Does not mean it has not happened but I have not read about it. I had the DeJon IC on my car when it was boosted but was never aware of any increase in HP.
Actually Rob, it does to an extent. If you watched my thread when I had my car tuned, the tuner could have gotten another 20-40hp out of my car if I had an aftermarket IC and a HFC because he could have turned the boost up more. More boost = more heat, which = more knock. Knock = BAD. Detune the car to get rid of heat and get rid of knock. Thus the reason my fan comes on full at 199 degrees….and I'm set at 289hp...instead of 299hp. My “bad” area of knock at WOT is at about 208 degrees. Luckily my car doesn’t see that now. So an aftermarket IC will give you the ability to push more air….the OE turbo will actually push almost 30psi, but with the OE IC, it becomes a heat pump after 22-25psi depending on your car. An aftermarket IC resolves that issue and lets you push higher boost…..or at least that’s what the tuner told me that did my car.
 

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Ghost that's exactly what Dave told me
 

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So, the short answer is no you do not need a retune if you are just adding an intercooler. You won't be taking full advantage of its ability to remove heat, but it will help further reduce the chances for knock since it won't heat soak like the stock intercooler.
 

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I have the DDM tune plus the gmpp tune . Will i need to retune if i install a HFC ? Thanks
Assuming that the DDM tune is Trifecta based (if it is not, you'd be better off asking Dave, not us) you shouldn't need to retune with the change in CAT, although doing so may release a couple more bhp.

Assume you have the switchable tune if it is Trifecta.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So, the short answer is no you do not need a retune if you are just adding an intercooler. You won't be taking full advantage of its ability to remove heat, but it will help further reduce the chances for knock since it won't heat soak like the stock intercooler.
This is how I understood it. I'm very familiar with internal combustion engines. My issue is everything I've heard on how finicky Direct Injection motors can be, I wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt anything. I've seen a friend with a 335i lose his mind chasing issues once he started modding. Hell, I remember seeing a post here where peeps went bonkers on a guy proposing to make his own CAI for a GXP. The MAF wouldn't read right and you'd get detrimental resonance, I was flabbergasted. What I'm trying to determine is what quirks the LNF may have that other turbo/gas platforms don't, when it comes to mods and the need for tuning.

As far as just valves and springs go, I know it sounds weird. If the valves are coked up, I'll have replacements on hand to remedy the situation. Well worth a few hours of elbow grease. Hopefully, the water/meth has prevented or rectified that. But again, I'm a measure 3 times, cut once kind of guy. I don't mind asking questions.

At this point I'll swap the IC, then run it like that until I can just do the full build and retune. It will be plenty of fun as is for a bit. Then I'll build it to 450-500whp, which I figure is perfect for this chassis. I'm thinking a 7000rpm limit and enough turbo so it pulls all the way there.

I'm also looking for a dry filter to replace the oiled one on the K&N. I prefer a dry filter and pre-filter bag like the GMPP. Always open to suggestions.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

:grouphug:

Let the turbo shopping commence.

:lurk:
 

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What I'm trying to determine is what quirks the LNF may have that other turbo/gas platforms don't, when it comes to mods and the need for tuning.

As far as just valves and springs go, I know it sounds weird. If the valves are coked up, I'll have replacements on hand to remedy the situation.
If you have it tuned just leave well enough alone until you decide to do something that changes things, like a larger turbo.

At that point, evaluate whether the turbo you want mandates a new set of pistons/rods. If not, bolt the new turbo on and have it tuned. If yes, then pull the whole engine down and rebuild.

I frankly don't see the point in buying new valves ahead of time. If you re and re the head they will blast the old valves and replace if needed, otherwise they'll be reground and go back in. Am I missing something here?

I'd stick the new IC in anyway even without retuning, as it will prevent the system heating up if you use it under boost too long at your present tune state. In other words you will lose less power from heating and it will be easier on the engine.
 

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Here is the parts list that goes to Phil when I sold him the car.

DDM Intercooler
Ferrea Valves
ZZP Stage 2 Cams
Werks 5th injector Kit powder coated black
Neutral Balance shafts
Gm Water pump
Werks Springs

Parts Description Blocks Universal 2.0L
* timing chain tensioner
* Rear Main Seal
* Timing cover gasket
* Main Bolts
* Girdle Bolts
GM Thermostat
Alternator - A/C Belt
P/S Belt
* Main Bearings
* Head Gasket
timing chain
Timing Chain guide top between cam gears
Timing Chain guide slack side
Timing Chain guide tension side
K1 Rods
Wiseco Pistons - slick Sides, wrist pins, rings, locks (suggested) 86.5mm bore
ARP Head Studs
Spark plugs
Valve Cover Gasket 2.0L
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Started getting the parts.

So the valves are 1mm over and will require machining the valve seat. At this point, I'm just going to install the Intercooler and enjoy it until I build next year. Then it should be a monster. 500hp pushing 3300lbs should feel nice.

Thanks all.
 
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