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Discussion Starter #1
I want to put a new intercooler on my car. I'm looking an open to suggestions. I know that the following are good, but is there a "better"?

DDM Works - not sure if he even has intercoolers anymore for the 2.0L
PAW - $550
RPM - $499
Hahn - $699 (really want this one, but it's $150 more then everyone else)

Are there any that I'm missing??? Or any that might be better then the above? Which is better above? The vendors could chime in too!!
 

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You also have the Werks racing intercooler. This is what I am using. It handles the EFR6758 turbo without any problems @ 30psi of boost.
I have a very small drop in pressure maybe 0.1 psi. And the cooling ability seems to be great, the charge air temp going into the engine is 1-2 degrees above ambient temperature
 

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PAW I see you did list it. DuH!!!
 

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I wanted to get the Hahn intercooler as well. I couldn't get ahold of anyone. I left messages and sent emails and no one ever called or emailed back. Seems like an indicator as to the customer service. And if they don't return a phone call for someone wanting to buy something they must not want my money. So I spent about 8k on my upgrades with Werks.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Really don't want PAW. I had major issues with my IC piping, between time it took to get, shavings in it and then loosely riveted name to them, and then paying shipping back and fourth twice and having to fight to get a refund....not a big fan.
 

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I have a PAW and I think it works great. The inlet and outlet looked to be free of any shavings, at least from what I could see. It's very nice.

Isn't the RPM intercooler larger than then PAW? And Hahn is the biggest?
 

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I also had some fitment issues with some of the product from PAW, the charge pipes were to long and needed to be trimmed down and the CAI simply would not fit at all and there were burs inside of the pipe where they welded on the nipple for the valve cover vent lines.

one the cold side charge pipe the flange where the MAP sensor gets mounted.. they didn't provide any screws to hold the MAP sensor in place and the threads were different then the stock screws. This wouldn't be a problem if I didn't live 30 minutes from the nearest hardware store...
 

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The intercooler I actually moved in my car, I raised it up so it touched the bottom of the aluminum bumper, so about 1.5". My stock intercooler set at a slight angle where the top of the intercooler was further forward then the bottom. It didn't appear like it had been hit at any point in time and nothing was bent at all, I think this is just how they sat.

Because I changed the front bumper cover to the RK sport cover the bottom of the new cover was wider and when put on with the intercooler in the stock location it caused the bottom of the bumper cover to get pushed down. I didn't care for this and I wanted it to be parallel with the ground and flat. By raising the intercooler up that 1.5" it solved the issue with the cover being pushed down and it also provided enough room for me to add a bent piece of 3/8 square steel tube to the cover. This made it so that it wouldn't sag under it's own weight.

The intercooler could be shifted up because I didn't use the stock bumper cover supports that bolt into the bottom of the aluminum bumper. so I didn't need to have a space to bolt them in, normally the intercooler has to get bolted in and then the supports so a gap is needed to get the bolts in.

I was able to get the factory duct in place behind the intercooler, this duct directs the air coming out of the back of the intercooler up into the radiator. Because of how large the underside of the RK Sport bumper cover is I didn't need the OE plastic trim that covers the bottom in front of the intercooler.

I want to correct the charge pipes was to long statement. if I had put the new intercooler in at the OE position or used the OE intercooler the hot side charge pipe would have been to short and the cold side would have been the proper length. So by moving the intercooler up it solved the short pipe problem but created a long pipe problem. Long pipe problem was easy to solve with a chain style pipe cutter. I was not able to put the barb/bump back on the pipe end, so I sanded the end with 120 grit to scuff it up some and then sprayed the end with aqua net hairspray and then put the coupling on with a t-bolt clamp. I actually used the sanding and aqua net hairspray on all of the charge piping. It does require quite a bit of effort to get the pipes apart when doing that so I know they are never going to pop apart under the pressure.
 

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The intercooler I actually moved in my car, I raised it up so it touched the bottom of the aluminum bumper, so about 1.5". My stock intercooler set at a slight angle where the top of the intercooler was further forward then the bottom. It didn't appear like it had been hot at any point in time and nothing was bent at all, I think this is just how they sat.

Because I changed the front bumper cover to the RK sport cover the bottom of the new cover was wider and when put on with the intercooler in the stock location it caused the bottom of the bumper cover to get pushed down. I didn't care for this and I wanted it to be parallel with the ground and flat. By raising the intercooler up that 1.5" it solved the issue with the cover being pushed down and it also provided enough room for me to add a bent piece of 3/8 square steel tube to the cover. This made it so that it wouldn't sag under it's own weight.

The intercooler could be shifted up because I didn't use the stock bumper cover supports that bolt into the bottom of the aluminum bumper. so I didn't need to have a space to bolt them in, normally the intercooler has to get bolted in and then the supports so a gap is needed to get the bolts in.

I was able to get the factory duct in place behind the intercooler, this duct directs the air coming out of the back of the intercooler up into the radiator. Because of how large the underside of the RK Sport bumper cover is I didn't need the OE plastic trim that covers the bottom in front of the intercooler.

I want to correct the charge pipes was to long statement. if I had put the new intercooler in at the OE position or used the OE intercooler the hot side charge pipe would have been to short and the cold side would have been the proper length. So by moving the intercooler up it solved the short pipe problem but created a long pipe problem. Long pipe problem was easy to solve with a chain style pipe cutter. I was not able to put the barb/bump back on the pipe end, so I sanded the end with 120 grit to scuff it up some and then sprayed the end with aqua net hairspray and then put the coupling on with a t-bolt clamp. I actually used the sanding and aqua net hairspray on all of the charge piping. It does require quite a bit of effort to get the pipes apart when doing that so I know they are never going to pop apart under the pressure.
Here https://gmbbodyforum.com you can know more information about auto parts.
Does an aftermarket intercooler increase HP?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Does an aftermarket intercooler increase HP?
It can, if your tuned for it. It allows you to run a bit more boost then an OE IC would, thus producing more power. I'm at 23psi of boost now. The tuner said with my car I could have run 25psi of boost if I would have had an aftermarket IC. Many believe that 23psi is the most that the k04 turbo can do, but he said that it can go beyond if you have appropriate cooling from a large IC and proper equipment. With standard equipment it becomes a heat pump.
 

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Does an aftermarket intercooler increase HP?
Yes and no, the stock intercooler isn't that small and it should be sufficient enough to cool the air for a few pulls. But if you do any kind of racing then it'll just heat soak and won't cool the incoming air anymore.
Do you need it on a stock car, unlikely unless you do some form of racing. Should you get one on a car with at least a tune, yes, since the turbo is probably pushing out hotter air.
 

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The IC doesn't directly add more HP. The stock IC is a size is large enough to handle the amount of air the stock turbo is able to move.... there is some wiggle room to this as the GMPP upgrade allows the turbo to move more air.

The GMPP tune maxes out the intercoolers capacity. what happens is if your intercooler is to small is you end up with a really high pressure drop across it. so the incoming air would be say 20PSI and the output is 16PSI. this is an indicator that there is a bottle neck. @The_Ghost is using the stock IC with 23psi of boost. This is higher then what I would personally feel comfortable running there are reports of the intercoolers failing at those kinds of pressures. But as is anything having a failure is probably going to be dictated by the day the part was made. if made on a Friday quality is going to be down because it is the end of the week. if made on a Monday quality will be down because of the hangover from the weekend. My point is it is a gamble @The_Ghost is on the winning side of that bet.

when dealing with turbos what really dictates how much HP you are going to get is the pre detonation because compressed air is being forced into the cylinders when the piston compresses the air even further it gets hotter. if the incoming air is too hot the air fuel mixture will explode before it is supposed to. this is very bad for an engine. so how that is handled is by retarding the timing, then that happens you lose HP. so the colder the incoming air the the better... A larger IC will reduce the pressure drop and it will also cool the air more, only if the IC that is installed is to small. So it really doesn't add more HP, it allows you to tune the ECM so that more of the HP that the engine and turbo are capable of creating is realized and put to the ground. The maximum psi the turbo can produce in pressure is close to 39psi. I did not make a mistake there. when looking at boost pressures it should always be done from an absolute psi measurement and not a relative one. absolute readings start at 0 and you add the barometric pressure reading and then the "boost" reading. the boost reading is the pressure above barometric. so a completely stock GXP will make about 14PSI of boost at seal level. at 8500ft altitude it makes 18psi of boost. sea level barometric pressure is 14.7psi, barometric reading at 8500ft elevation is 10.7. The turbo is making exactly the same amount of psi in either case but the boost pressure is higher at high altitude. This is the reason why when evaluating turbos it makes it easier to know the capacity when looking at it from an absolute stand point.

the 39psi is the maximum. this is all the turbo has to offer, the turbo is spinning at the maximum RPM it is designed to do.. so here is a question.. If a car has a maximum RPM of 6000 do you drive around with it at 6000 RPM all the time?? Nope.. The longer longer the engine is at those kinds of RPM's what happens? It undergoes a lot more wear then if you spend the same amount of time at say 4000 RPM. an engine that has a max RPM of 6000 if run to 90% of that (5400 RPM) the engine is going to undergo somewhere in the ballpark of 70% less wear. so if you apply the same principle to the turbo you get close to 35psi. then subtract off the barometric pressure and you get a safe boost level of a little above 20psi. pushing the turbo past that is going to cut into that 70% less wear and this is acceptable to a lot of people. you have to look at your driving style and how often you would be pushing the car to max boost.

For me.... i like to get from 0 to the speed limit as fast as possible, so it would not be ideal to run the stock turbo at 23 psi. I would have it fail faster then most others that are running the same.

also the stock IC is going to cause a large amount of restriction (pressure drop) at those pressures and as a result it is going to cause the turbo to have to work harder and that also leads to additional wear. I have an aftermarket intercooler and I have 0.1psi of drop across the intercooler at 33psi of boost (peak) (44psi absolute)

There are a lot of factors that have to be considered when deciding if an intercooler should be replaced. No sense in throwing money at something that is not really needed and is not going to offer any kind of a benefit. personally I would replace the IC if the boost pressures get above 20psi it is going to allow the car to breathe easier, take longer for the IC to get heat soaked and will cool the air better then the stock IC would at the same pressure.
 

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I want to put a new intercooler on my car. I'm looking an open to suggestions. I know that the following are good, but is there a "better"?

DDM Works - not sure if he even has intercoolers anymore for the 2.0L
PAW - $550
RPM - $499
Hahn - $699 (really want this one, but it's $150 more then everyone else)

Are there any that I'm missing??? Or any that might be better then the above? Which is better above? The vendors could chime in too!!
The Ghost, I have the Hahn if you are interested, never used, it's been a backup sitting in the basement in case we ever did damage under the front of our coupe. Instructions included if they are not still on-line. The intake/output charge tubes have had plastic bags with rubber bands over them, and the unit has been under a towel to keep it new.

Let me know if interested, I'd do the cost of the others plus shipping so the Hahn really isn't costing you any more than the others. I'm in Denver area regarding shipping. PM me, we've both been on this site some time.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
The Ghost, I have the Hahn if you are interested, never used, it's been a backup sitting in the basement in case we ever did damage under the front of our coupe. Instructions included if they are not still on-line. The intake/output charge tubes have had plastic bags with rubber bands over them, and the unit has been under a towel to keep it new.

Let me know if interested, I'd do the cost of the others plus shipping so the Hahn really isn't costing you any more than the others. I'm in Denver area regarding shipping. PM me, we've both been on this site some time.
Thanks....I might take you up on that offer. Depends on an upcoming vehicle purchase. I'm after a 2020 Camaro 2SS with the 1LE package, but it's in NJ. I'll know more after the weekend and might take you up on that offer!
 

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Thanks....I might take you up on that offer. Depends on an upcoming vehicle purchase. I'm after a 2020 Camaro 2SS with the 1LE package, but it's in NJ. I'll know more after the weekend and might take you up on that offer!
Sure, just let me know.
 

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@Shadofax

How much are you asking for the Hahn?
 

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@Shadofax

How much are you asking for the Hahn?
From my discuss with The Ghost, if you go back to his first post, I was thinking of a price in between the other two lower cost makers, and would add something for shipping since that will cost as it will have to be packed carefully, likely send via UPS and add for insurance coverage.
 
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