[Chitown racer]

Like the title says I'm looking to make a turbo upgrade in my effort to reach my goal of breaking the 400whp mark. I'm torn between the DDM GT2871 upgrade and the Werks racing WR2 turbo upgrade. Though both claim gains that would get me to my goal, price wise the DDM GT2871 seems to be the ticket. Unless there are any hidden costs.

My plan is to purchase a larger inter cooler, better intake and inter cooler plumbing, solo hi flow cat and install it at the same time as the turbo upgrade along with my stage2 snow perf. Methanol kit that I already have, then have it tuned of course.

I guess my concerns are spooling differences and day to day drivability. Ease of reaching my goal with each kit, and reliability and compatibilty of each kit. As well as ease of installation and any hidden costs that might make one kit much more costly then the other. Any input from those in the know would be helpful and thanx.

 

[GXP-Coupe1]

WERKS EFR kits are the Dope!!

I started a similar thread 2 or 3 weeks ago. Input from forum members as well as speaking to various vendors changed my mind entirely. Do the reserarch before making any decision. EFR kits are expensive in comparison, but I believe well worht the extra coin. Below is the thread that has a ton of information. PM me if you have any questions.


http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f11/gxp-turbo-upgrade-help-needed-77385/

 

[GXP-Coupe1]

The Home of WERKSracing products!

Above is the like to WERKS Racing. This is the kit I have purchased. Kick-Ass!!!!!!

 

[LatinVenom]

If he wants to keep the $$$ amount low the DDM GT2871 is the way to go.
One thing to clarify neither of the two you mentioned will give you 400WHP, but they will certainly give you well over 400 BHP at the crank.
If you really mean 400whp then you need the EFR setup to accomplish that whp goal.
Also do yourself a favor and upgrade the valve springs to be on the safe side.
Also at that much WHP you need the internals upgraded or you will be gambling with the well being of your motor.

 

[Chitown racer]

Well I guess I mean 400 HP at the crank then lol. Seriously though, I'm not ready to upgrade any internals but, for some reason I thought our engines were capable of handling more power in stock form. Also, I didn't think you had to make too much more than 400 hp at the crank to make 400 at the wheels, I'm guessing its about 12 to 15% loss through the drivetrain.

Anyhow, I would be very happy with 400-425 HP at the crank but I'm not looking to break the bank getting there. My criteria for making power is, whatever I do has to be bolt on and plug and play. So, for now I'm gonna see what upgrading the Intake, inter cooler and plumbing, exhaust, and various other bolt ons along with an e47 tune will get me. I may also consider ponying up the coin for the Werks WR2 turbo upgrade because it is a bolt on upgrade and it looks stock and I like stealth upgrades :devil:

 

[L-N-F'n]

15% drive train loss. Example; 479 BHP X .85 = 407.15 WPH

 

[Chitown racer]

15% drive train loss. Example; 479 BHP X .85 = 407.15 WPH

Thanx for doin the math...lol....I wasn't sure how it would pan out but I guess I'll just do what I can and wherever the numbers land they land.

 

[LatinVenom]

Sorry is more like 17% drive train loss.
Intake/intercooler and plumbing will not do much for you.
By the way the DDM GT2871 is a bolt on setup just like the Werks 2 and a lot less money.
Exhaust and High flow cat is a better investment.
e47 is good as long as you can find it.

 

[kwtoxman]

OP, have you even what rpm the wr-2 spools at? Hint, it isn't early to put it mildly. How about the dyno graphs of the the ddm 2871 and wr-2? The party ends early on the 2871 with a notable powrt/tq hump. And the party takes a long time to get started on the wr-2. There is a reason why having the newest technology is good and that the efr is recommended. From what I've seen the efr 6758 is putting out over 100 whp more than the wr-2 at 3400 rpm (ish).

I concur with LV and would do the ddm 2871 if you wanted to save money and have a daily driver, although it leaves higher rpm power off the table. But I'd personally wait and save for an efr. The efr will get you to 400+ whp too.

 

[LatinVenom]

He can always go with the ZFR-6758 from ZZP since it is a bolt on piece to our exhaust manifold. The price is also good at less than $1900.00
It also keeps the twin scroll setup of the KO4.
Not sure if the above is setup/tune correctly why the lag would be higher than the KO4 as one Cobalt owner posted.

PS: It is my understanding that Dave from DDM and it's latest tune on the GT2871 has a much improve Dyno graph.

Elff runs this setup (GT2871) and has very good postings on it.

 

[kwtoxman]

Note that Elff is running his setup with E47 which is a big power adder. And he noted most other dyno's posted apart from yours are E47 added results.

I agree with the ZFR option.

Why is your EFR upgrade on hold LV? PM me if you wish.

 

[LatinVenom]

I have asked Dave at DDM to give me one last upgrade on my present upgraded K04.
Base on his answer it looks like it will be around 350 BHP at the crank.

I am waiting for the 2014 Stingray to arrive at the dealer and go for an extended test drive.

Once that is done then I will make a decision on my next move.

 

[TX08manualGXP]

That's crazy. I'd like to ride in a 400+ whp kappa to see how it felt but me personally, If I was going to dump 5-7 grand I think I'd go for the V8 conversion but that's just me. I'm sure you could get a totalled Vette at auction or at least a working engine for about 5k. Oh well, keep us posted as this is intestering as hell to say the least.

happy spooling,

 

[brap]

If you can do e47 tune, do it. Thats the best mod right there.

Cobalt 2.0 Performance

^

Wouldn't this be the best bang for $ turbo upgrade? Easily capable of 400whp+

 

[Chitown racer]

If you can do e47 tune, do it. Thats the best mod right there.

Cobalt 2.0 Performance

^

Wouldn't this be the best bang for $ turbo upgrade? Easily capable of 400whp+

I have e85 readily available from a station here in town and I will still have the option to swap back to 93 oct tune as needed.

With that said, after thought I've decided to take baby steps. I think I will install the high flow cat, a cool sounding exhaust, leave the k&n drop in filter in, get an e47 tune and see where I'm at. Just can't justify laying out a coup,e of grand plus for a turbo mod right now. Thanx for all your input as it will come in handy when I do finally decide to make that upgrade....I'm thinking spring next year.

 

[LatinVenom]

I am not into 1/4 mile or red light racing.
I did the 1/4 racing professionally many many years ago.
V8 conversions are also not for me, since for very little money you can get this Kappa to 400 BHP.
I am into the driving experience and this car can deliver that experience.
I am looking to see how much more of that driving experience the new Stingray will provide.
to answer the other question there is no e85 around here, but is also not necessary for my goals.

 

[commonsense]

Don't give up midrange performance for more power at high RPM. Midrange power is used all the time. High end power? Rarely......

 

[JesseB]

So even though this was almost a year old ...commonsense, are you saying for a daily driver, the DDM GT2871 or the ZFR is a better choice? For someone like me that rarely goes high end power, but loves to play with it around 30mph to 70mph ...I also like pulling out in second gear and when it gets to about 20mph, stomping on it...which is better for a 20mph to 80mph pull? Also, will both of these have a noticeable improvement over my current tune (Trifecta "Canned" Tune @ 23PSI)

Edit: I'd also like to add that I would like "safe" power, meaning I'm not ready to upgrade expensive internals

 

[commonsense]

I have a Saturn Sky Redline that's all stock, except for the exhaust and a locally HP tuned motor. It dyno'd at around 250 rwhp and 275 rear wheel torque. It runs 0-60 in 4.4 and the quarter in 13.1 at about 104. Makes about 23 lbs of boost max. It's insane around town. Just a dab of throttle lights up the original (agreeably old!) tires. Pulls incredibly off the line and at low rpm. It's an auto.

I just bought a GXP and am trying to decide what to do with it. It's a stick. I talked to Dave at DDM and I'm inclined to go with the GT2871 turbo, this time around. But I'm not going to change out the intercooler. It's complicated and expensive and if you only get on it once in a while--on the street--he agreed it won't help that much.

I'll do the exhaust again and, of course, get it tuned.

The thing that convinced me was when I asked if I'd lose this incredible low end power. He said 'no', the boost would come on about the same rpm. I'm guessing because it's using the same exhaust side of the turbo. Anyway, this is where I'm leaning and spent the morning going through posts to see what others had to say.

I use Dave's Backbone and Pro Beam on the Sky and I'm really happy with them too. I will get them for the GXP as well.

Trust me, high horsepower--if it doesn't come until high RPM--is a waste on the street. You want kickass low and midrange power. Most street drags are over in a few hundred yards anyway. No one goes 1/4 mile on the street--not even the Street Outlaw guys in Oklahoma City. They run 1/8 mile.

My Sky runs dead even with lots of high horsepower cars.....for the first 1/8 mile!

 

[kwtoxman]

So even though this was almost a year old ...commonsense, are you saying for a daily driver, the DDM GT2871 or the ZFR is a better choice? For someone like me that rarely goes high end power, but loves to play with it around 30mph to 70mph ...I also like pulling out in second gear and when it gets to about 20mph, stomping on it...which is better for a 20mph to 80mph pull? Also, will both of these have a noticeable improvement over my current tune (Trifecta "Canned" Tune @ 23PSI)

Edit: I'd also like to add that I would like "safe" power, meaning I'm not ready to upgrade expensive internals

After this thread and info werks decided to retool their entire turbo line-up but not rename the models so all the old WR-2 and WR-3 info on the internet is now wrong. Great stuff to confuse people. :ack:

The stock turbo falls flat at higher rev's as you've experienced, but it has great early spool. The best options that keep early and fast spool imo are a big wheel upgrade, GTX 2863R and the WR-2 (which is the EFR 6258). Many vendors can work with all these options including DDM and Werks. Most people want the bigger turbos so there hasn't been much talk or info on the smaller GTX and WR-2 I just mentioned. Nothing for dyno info either.

Many consider the EFR 6758 (aka WR-3 and ZFR 6758) the best compromise of losing a few hundred rpm of early spool only and still having a very fast spool and strong pull to all the way to redline. It also can be pushed to the limit of the stock engine which many recommend is around 400 whp. Even beyond that notably to 450 whp+..... though tuning can easily bring the power back to safe levels.

The DDM 2871 is a hybrid 2871 which comes as a kit. A GT2871R will not spool as early, nor bolt up, for example. The DDM 2871 spools later than stock but still has a decent early spool. Though I think GTX2863R and the GTX2867R is a better choice as they are a newer design. The GTX2863R will spool earlier. And DDM can do these turbos as kits in lieu of 2871 option. The GTX2867R which will give some more high end power at the expense of a bit slower spool than the 2863 (I saw a 300 rpm estimate in an internet search for around our engine size). I've seen the GTX 2867R on the 2.0 turbo DI VW/Audi cars and it spools later than both EFR turbo's mentioned earlier. Think things get exciting around 3400 rpm. Many people compare the GTX2867R to the EFR 6758 as they are close, though specs and results show the 6758 is a bit better overall (earlier spool. faster spool and more max flow [hp]).

The thing is on the GTX R series turbos, they are relatively new and no one on the forums has been bolting them onto the solstice yet and discussing them.

The EFR models have the newest technology. And they spec out the best imo. the gamma ti turbine gives an incredibly fast spool. EFRs have lots of internet buzz across many car platforms. Those are what I prefer at this time.

Here is a dyno of the ddm 2871. copy and paste the url. 350 whp and 379 torque but with a notable hump curve.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/264008_868978104142_3662071_n.jpg