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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For cars without a GMOL/DIC I believe oil and filter change is scheduled every 5K. Why so frequent?

GM has historically provided two schedules, one for normal and one for heavy duty cycles. The normal on other GMs has for decades been 6000. And with the advent of considerably better lubricants and more knowledge and insight into engine longevity not to mention proven algorithm oil change schedules - 6000 has been pushed considerably upwards to 10000-ish miles.

Now all of sudden, sans GMOL/DIC - it's back to 5000 for all duty cycles on the Sol/Ecotec?

Is this a concession to 5W30 oil spec'd for the Ecotec or something about the Ecotec itself?
 

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With or without a DIC... once I have had a proper break-in and conversion to Mobil 1...

I would be doing once a year OR 12,000 miles.
 

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My miserable little Sentra needs it every 3250 miles.

Because I hate the car it gets it every 5k.

I'm impressed with GM making the 2.4l ecotec pump out 177hp.
The nissan 2.5l motor I've got only pushes out 165. I kinda of wish I would have gotten the sissy 1.8l sentra so that I might have a very low benchmark acceleration in comparison to the Sky in my near future.
 

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pgtr said:
For cars without a GMOL/DIC I believe oil and filter change is scheduled every 5K. Why so frequent?

GM has historically provided two schedules, one for normal and one for heavy duty cycles. The normal on other GMs has for decades been 6000. And with the advent of considerably better lubricants and more knowledge and insight into engine longevity not to mention proven algorithm oil change schedules - 6000 has been pushed considerably upwards to 10000-ish miles.

Now all of sudden, sans GMOL/DIC - it's back to 5000 for all duty cycles on the Sol/Ecotec?

Is this a concession to 5W30 oil spec'd for the Ecotec or something about the Ecotec itself?
The previous (pre-oil life systems) GM recommended oil change intervals were 3,000 or 7,500 depending on usage. That compares to the 3,000 or 6,000 from 1971.

The non-oil life monitor redcommendation of 5,000 is regardless of usage. So for some this is an increase, for others a decrease. But a resonable compromise for not having a visual indicator to remind people.

By the way, with the oil life monitor, if it is reset by accident, you must use a 3,000 interval.
 

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Fortimir said:
With or without a DIC... once I have had a proper break-in and conversion to Mobil 1...

I would be doing once a year OR 12,000 miles.
Keep in mind that going with the 12,000 miles, if the oil life monitor doesn't match, will put your warranty in danger. Warranty requires maintenance to be done when recommended by GM/Pontiac.
 

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Thraxz said:
My miserable little Sentra needs it every 3250 miles.

Because I hate the car it gets it every 5k.

I'm impressed with GM making the 2.4l ecotec pump out 177hp.
The nissan 2.5l motor I've got only pushes out 165. I kinda of wish I would have gotten the sissy 1.8l sentra so that I might have a very low benchmark acceleration in comparison to the Sky in my near future.
Maybe you can help me Thraxz,

For years I've noticed that whenever I see a car on the freeway doing something really crazy, like passing on the shoulder, zig-zagging through tight openings, tail-gating, backing up an exit ramp, etc... , it is a Sentra about 60% of the time. I'm still trying to figure out what it is about the car that causes the phenomenon. Is it because the owners hate the car, like you? Or is it because the engine sounds good and they think they are driving ferraris?

Don't want to hijack the thread but if you have a theory, I'd like to hear it!
 

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I'd venture to say anyone who buys a Sentra is either:

A) An idiot and would do that kind of stuff in any car they own. Heck, if they think this car sounds good they'd be in this catagory anyway.

B) Hates the car wants to get rid of it.

If I had to pick one... it's the first.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My '71 Chevy schedule is 6K mi for normal duty cycle. Modern oils are far far better than what was on the market in the early 70s. Many of today's algorithmic based oil change indicators (including GMs) have been noted for taking contemporary API cert oil to 8K or 10K or higher miles. And this is validated by those who do oil sample analysis I've heard.

WHich is why I was a bit surprised as of 2004 they've actually gotten more aggressive with the oil change intervals and begs the question - why?
 

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Oils have gotten far better over time, but you should still change your filter every 5k miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Off hand I don't believe any of my various cars manufacturers I've had experience with over the years ever recommended this. I'm curious, who says and why?
 

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Every year when I have the annual PA state inspection I have always changed the oil and filter whether needed or not, usually at about 20-25,000 miles. It is my family driver, a V8 Ford 3 seat e150 van, It has about 185,000 miles on it and it has never needed anything except tires.
 

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Gee talbotflyer...that is a great testiment to quality of Ford build engines... the folks at the Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums would luv to hear that one. I would be curious as to what kind of suggestions and replys they would give you in their forums. Oh by the way they do have an excellent Oil and Lubrication forum there too.
 

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We change the oil in our cars every 3000/3500 miles or twice a year if we don't have enough miles. Small thing to do to keep the motor in great shape.
 

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I have been using Mobil 1 in every vehicle I have had for the last 10 years, or so. I change each vehicle every April and October. I also use the highest grade filter I can find for the change. Not only have the quality of the lubricants gotten better, but the filter manufacturers have also come out with filters that do a better job, over a longer period of time.
 

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deluke said:
We change the oil in our cars every 3000/3500 miles or twice a year if we don't have enough miles. Small thing to do to keep the motor in great shape.
Exactly.

Why pay $20k+ for something if you're going to skrimp on $5 filters? It;s a filter. The more frequent you change it the better it filters, and the more often you remove what builds up in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
brentil said:
...you should still change your filter every 5k miles.
If equpped with the GMOL/DIC - Why?

deluke said:
We change the oil in our cars every 3000/3500 miles or twice a year if we don't have enough miles. Small thing to do to keep the motor in great shape.
By implication - followng the GM recommendations does NOT keep the motor in "great shape"?

How does changing the filter less frequently by following the GMOL/DIC not keep the motor in great shape?

brentil said:
The more frequent you change it the better it filters
brentil said:
and the more often you remove what builds up in there.
What exactly builds up in there?

What happens to the motor if what is purportedly 'built up' in the filter is not removed at 3K or 5K miles because one follows the GMOL/DIC schedule?
 

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pgtr said:
If equpped with the GMOL/DIC - Why?



By implication - followng the GM recommendations does NOT keep the motor in "great shape"?

How does changing the filter less frequently by following the GMOL/DIC not keep the motor in great shape?





What exactly builds up in there?

What happens to the motor if what is purportedly 'built up' in the filter is not removed at 3K or 5K miles because one follows the GMOL/DIC schedule?
I didn't say that !!!! However most mechanics will tell you to change the oil every 3000/3500 miles. ( Thats from the old school) Yes, Oil filters do get dirty.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
deluke said:
I didn't say that!!!!
(edit) You're correct - my bad and my appologies.


deluke said:
however any mechanic will tell you to change the oil every 300/3500 miles.
Any will? :eek: What survey data are you referring to? I find it unlikely (but am open to fact based information) that a statistically significant number of ASE certified mechanics will say that let alone a majority / "any" regarding a normal duty cycle interval. The normal duty cycle 3K oil change myth can be directly linked to one source: the quick change oil industry. I am not aware of a SINGLE manufacturer that makes this recommendation with respect to a normal duty cycle usage. Neither GM certified dealership mechanics nor GM's own automotive engineers will say it either - the later being the ones behind the original old school 6K mi intervals and worked to develop the algorithm a good decade ago which has been refined since and stretches it closer to 10k+ mi intervals in many cases today.

deluke said:
( Thats from the old school)
What "old school" would that be?

I have a small but decent library of GM CSMs published by Helm from the late 60s to the mid 80s and on average for normal duty cycles GM recommended in the "old" days 6K mi intervals for oil changes and 12K mi intervals for filters. :D

deluke said:
Yes, Oil filters do get dirty.
OK. So are you saying the GMOL/DIC doesn't take this into account? :confused:

deluke said:
But hell, change your oil every 10000 miles for all I care.
Certainly - if that's what the GMOL/DIC calculates. ;) But if there's some fact based information you are privy to as suggested by your recommendations that would indicate the GMOL/DIC is unrealistic and will shorten engine life if followed - please do let us know.

deluke said:
If you want to start trouble new forum member go to another forum.
New forum members aren't allowed to inquire as to why a blanket recommendation is being made? You've made some recommendations publicly and I've merely asked for supporting information. My appologies if this is upsetting or I inadvertently broke the rules by asking why - just trying to learn why we should ignore the GMOL/DIC and follow your recommendations instead is all. The issue at hand is a filter schedule for a mature, proven, cheap mass produced engine and a long established and (seemingly) proven algorithm - no need for emotion when fact based data will do. Again - I request with the utmost politeness and all due respect for your expertise and authority in lubricant filter life - please share with us any white papers, engineering or statistical data or other objective fact based sources showing the GMOL/DIC filter intervals for the Ecotec are invalid and should not be followed as they are not frequent enough with respect to filters.
 

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Here is some 2000 Oil Life Info for background: Oil Life Monitor Go to page 4. Link should work through the remainder of the year.

Here is a October 2005 paper that covers some of the same areas you are talking about (also talks about gas). Haven't read in yet, on my links list to get to, maybe this weekend.
http://www.sae.org/events/pfs/presentations/2005colucci.doc

Couldn't find any answers with a quick look through this site:http://www.ecotecpower.com/

Perhaps you could get some information by asking GM? http://www.gm.com/gmcomjsp/contactus/emailus_comment_powerTrain.html
 

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pgtr said:
Yes you stated one "should still change your filter every 5k miles" without regard for the GMOL/DIC recommendation. :blush: It was a blanket recommendation without regard to duty cycle. Then you were very emphatic with onother's recomendation of 3k mi filter changes. That runs contrary to the intervals the GMOL/DIC comes up with - I think it's reasonable to ask how you arrived at this recommendation. And further, it casts into doubt any 'value' the well advertised (by GM) oil indicator portion of the DIC would have to a buyer such as myself.




Any will? :eek: What survey data are you referring to? I find it unlikely (but am open to fact based information) that a statistically significant number of ASE certified mechanics will say that let alone a majority / "any" regarding a normal duty cycle interval. The normal duty cycle 3K oil change myth can be directly linked to one source: the quick change oil industry. I am not aware of a SINGLE manufacturer that makes this recommendation with respect to a normal duty cycle usage. Neither GM certified dealership mechanics nor GM's own automotive engineers will say it either - the later being the ones behind the original old school 6K mi intervals and worked to develop the algorithm a good decade ago which has been refined since and stretches it closer to 10k+ mi intervals in many cases today.



What "old school" would that be?

I have a small but decent library of GM CSMs published by Helm from the late 60s to the mid 80s and on average for normal duty cycles GM recommended in the "old" days 6K mi intervals for oil changes and 12K mi intervals for filters. :D



OK. So are you saying the GMOL/DIC doesn't take this into account? :confused:



Certainly - if that's what the GMOL/DIC calculates. ;) But if there's some fact based information you are privy to as suggested by your recommendations that would indicate the GMOL/DIC is unrealistic and will shorten engine life if followed - please do let us know.



New forum members aren't allowed to inquire as to why a blanket recommendation is being made? You've made some recommendations publicly and I've merely asked for supporting information. My appologies if this is upsetting or I inadvertently broke the rules by asking why - just trying to learn why we should ignore the GMOL/DIC and follow your recommendations instead is all. The issue at hand is a filter schedule for a mature, proven, cheap mass produced engine and a long established and (seemingly) proven algorithm - no need for emotion when fact based data will do. Again - I request with the utmost politeness and all due respect for your expertise and authority in lubricant filter life - please share with us any white papers, engineering or statistical data or other objective fact based sources showing the GMOL/DIC filter intervals for the Ecotec are invalid and should not be followed as they are not frequent enough with respect to filters.

I said I change mine every 3000/3500 miles. And I will continue to change it the same in the future.
 
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