[JimVonBaden]

Good to know. Mine was pretty bad, so it was cool. Next time I will just get the repellent.

Jim

 

[jimo]

I have had my 2007 2 1/2 yrs and not treated the top. When I washed it the water seemed to soak in but, no sign of anything coming through. I treated the top a couple weeks ago with 303 fabric guard. Put the car out in the sun and once the 303 dried it look like I hadn't done a thing. It really looked good. Since then I have washed the car and water beads nicely. The cloth doesn't get the wet cloth look now. 303 has my vote. The 303 high tech for rubber and vinyl leaves a nice finish to the plastic and rubber parts.

 

[LowLife1]

Generally I use Griotgarage products because I've always had excellent results and even though they sell a convertible cleaning kit (cleaner/protector/brush) I was swayed by Raggtop (and their YouTube vids) and purchased it off Amazon so I'm basically have to use it. I'll report back once I use it.

 

[AWhatstice?]

properautocare seems to have the best overall price with shipping right now on 303 fabric convertible top kit

 

[AZDarkSol]

DarkSol has always been protected with 303 Fabric Guard. It never has seen anything else. As you know the summers can be brutal here in Phoenix. I never use a cleaner. Only treat it once a year. I just drop the top, throw an old bed sheet over the windshield and the side door windows to catch the overspray, put the top back up and spray away until the top is evenly wet..then let dry and that's it.

Top is original and still looks like new. I bought DarkSol November of '06 so I entering my 5th summer!

Also 303 is recommended and approved by Sunbrella a major maker of patio furniture materials. I use 303 on all my patio furniture as well as non-Sunbrella sets. Same thing, keeps it looking like new and waterproof.

Oh and DarkSol never sees anything but a hand wash.

I just buy 303 by the gallon, find the best price on line and that's it...I bought a gallon years ago...it lasts a long time.

 

[rob the elder]

Ok
I have been motivated to go do some research

One post I found stated that spray application is much better than hand application as it penetrates the fabric structure better. Still looking into that one.

But I did find this very interesting.

The PT soft tops are made of polyacrylic/polyester canvas. This type of material will stain over time, and can become deteriorated at an accelerated rate if it is not cared for. Before we begin, here are a couple of things to remember. Do not use harsh all purpose cleaner to clean your top. It can stain the material, and like leather, can also pull some of the color off of the material. Do not use powder chemicals like A-Jax to clean your top. This will act like sand paper, and can destroy the top in no time at all! With this said, lets do some cleaning!

I recommend you clean your top at least once a month, or more if it is dusty. Do not use "car wash soap" to clean your top. The oils, and gloss enhancing minerals will make your top a virtual dust magnet. . I recommend using Wolfstien's Raggtop Cleaner.It is the only cleaner endorsed by the Heart's Corporation that supplies the tops to Daimler Chrysler. Fill a bucket with water, and approximately 2 ounces of soap. Do not use a cloth, or chennile wash mitt as they will leave lint. Instead, if your top has a lot of bird droppings, or other related staining, use a soft bristle brush to agitate the surface. A good rule of thumb is if you can rub the brush across the back of your hand without scratching the skin, then it is safe to use on your top. After washing, follow up with a thorough rinse with clean cool water. To dry, use a clean microfiber towel, or synthetic chamois. Rather than wiping the water off, blot the water up with the rag or chamois. Do not use terry cloth, or a diaper as they will leave lint.

Sooner, or later you will run across a stain that won't come out. Weather it is bird droppings, or tree sap, or some other related type of contaminant, the first natural thing to do is to scrub it till it comes out. This will only spread the material around, and will create an even bigger mess. Instead, keep a spray bottle with some of the Raggtop Cleaner used full strength.. Spray the spot, and let it sit for 3 to 5 minutes. Do not let it dry, as it will leave a stain. Follow by a thorough rinse with clean cool water, and then proceed to wash the entire top as outlined above.

Now that your top is clean, lets move on to protection. I am also going to recommend using Wolfstein's Raggtop Protectant for this process. It is not expensive, and is the only protectant endorsed by Heart's Corporation. This material is a spray, like scotchgaurd, and it will leave a messy film on your paint, that is difficult to clean up, so I recommend taking a few minutes to mask off your paint, and windows prior to using this product. Simply use cheep masking tape, and some old newspaper. Mask around the bottom of your paint as to not get overspray on the paint. Then lift the front of the top slightly and place newspaper between the top, and the windshield. Repeat with the side windows to finish the masking process.

Shake up the can of protectant for approximately 30 - 60 seconds before use. Start in the middle of the top on one side, holding the can between 7" - 9" from the surface, work toward the body line in smooth back, and forth sprays, releasing your finger at the end of each pass. Proceed until the top is completely covered. I recommend you follow up with a second coat of protection, and a third coat on the surface around all seams. Allow the protectant to set up for approximately 30 minutes, and you are good to go.

Remove the masking material, and check for overspray on your paint, and windows. If any overspray present, a little wax on a clean microfiber towel should remove it easily.

 

[rob the elder]

Confirmed that our factory top is made by Haartz Corporation and its Stayfast C

The Haartz Corporation - Stayfast C

And in fact Haartz recommends

Cloth Top Cleaning

CAMBRIA®, STAYFAST®, TWILLFAST®, SONNENLAND®
Solution Dyed Acrylic Topping Fabric

Ordering Information at bottom of page

Although the fabric does not promote mildew growth by itself, mildew may develop on dirt and other foreign substances that are not removed. This is especially true in warm, humid, dark environments. A program of keeping the fabric clean through regular washings, BEFORE it gets dirty, will enhance the life and beauty of the acrylic and make successive cleaning easier.

Most automatic car washes will not harm cloth top fabrics. Washes with water jets and hanging cloths provide a more gentle cleaning action. Those using heavy barrel brushes could damage the top material. Haartz recommends hand washing.

The Haartz Corporation recommends using RAGGTOPP™ Cleaner and RAGGTOPP™ Protectant (available from Wolfsteins Pro-Series at tel: 800-377-4700, fax: 770-395-1353, e-mail: info@wolfsteins.com).

Hand washing in shade or partial shade, not direct sunlight, is best. DO NOT USE DETERGENT. Bird and tree droppings, as well as other loose particle soils, should be removed immediately. Vacuum with a brush attachment and rinse thoroughly with water to remove loose particle soils. This will also prevent the soils from being redeposited during the cleaning process. Once the fabric has been rinsed thoroughly, spray RAGGTOPP™ Cleaner evenly over the entire surface while still wet. Allow the cleaner to soak for 10 to 20 minutes and then scrub lightly with a soft nylon brush or terry cloth rag. Rinse thoroughly, preferably until no remaining soap foam is observed. Additional cleanings may be required. It is best to determine the need for additional cleanings after the fabric has dried completely.

Washing with soap (ie. Ivory or Lux) and warm water is a safe alternative to RAGGTOPP™ Cleaner, but not as effective.

For more stubborn cases, mix a solution of no more than 1/2 cup (4oz.) bleach and 1/4 cup (2oz.) RAGGTOPP™ Cleaner per gallon of water, soak for approximately 20 minutes and scrub lightly as indicated above. (Excessive soaking with the bleach solution can deteriorate seam threads.) Rinse thoroughly to prevent streaking on painted and chrome surfaces. Several cleanings may be necessary.

Once dry, cleaning must be followed by re-water repelling with RAGGTOPP™ Protectant. (This product does not contain CFC's and therefore, is not harmful to the environment.) Failure to apply will result in rapid resoiling of the unprotected fabric.

 

[rob the elder]

Haartz Stayfast acrylic cloth sport topping. Solution dyed acrylic face fabric resists fading. Stayfast, 60" wide.
All colors are available by special order. Pricing Varies. Please inquire.

Construction: A three ply composite made of
100% acrylic square weave
outer fabric, a butyl rubber
inner layer and a 100% cotton
drill lining fabric.

Benefits: - Superior Tailorability
- Excellent Wrinkle Resistance
- Superior U.V. Resistance
- Superior Weatherability
- Excellent Durability
- Excellent Cost/Performance
- Excellent Low Temp. Flexibility

Original Equipment -
EUROPE
-Alpha Romeo Spider
-Lotus Elise
-Rover MGF
-Peugeot 306
-RR Bentley Azure
USA
-Chevrolet Camaro
-Dodge Viper
-Plymouth Prowler
-Pontiac Firebird
-Toyota Celica
JAPAN
-Mazda Miata

 

[rob the elder]

Based on my research, My supply of 303 is for sale

By Prentice St. Clair

There are over four million convertible automobiles on the road today. Every major automotive manufacturer has at least one convertible in its line. Yet most car owners are not aware of any standard operating procedure for the care and maintenance of convertible tops.

When you think about it, the convertible top is simply a piece of cloth or vinyl that is up against everything the environment can throw at it. Of course, manufacturers of convertible tops are aware of this and thus use high-grade and heavy-gauge materials for the convertible top. Nonetheless, anything that we can do to provide extra protection to that material will help it last all the longer.

Equipped with a bit of knowledge, the proper chemicals, and the right procedure, most people find that convertible top care is rather simple and can be quite profitable.

Types of Convertible Tops

There are two main types of convertible tops. The difference is due to the material used, either fabric or vinyl.

One type is the classic top constructed with cloth as the covering material. This material looks and feels like canvas, but is actually woven of fibers that are either synthetic, like acrylic, polyester, olefin, or a synthetic and cotton blend. These fabrics are actually breathable but are made water repellant by a chemical treatment process used during manufacturing. The original repellency breaks down with time and exposure to the elements.

The other type of convertible top is made of thick vinyl. Vinyl is a plastic product composed mostly of polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and made flexible with the addition of plasticizers. The vinyl top may look like a canvas material, but upon close inspection, you can see that the "canvas" is simply an impression stamped into the vinyl when it is manufactured. It is normal for the plasticizers to gradually dry out over time, causing the material to crack and eventually split. With proper care, however, this process can be slowed significantly.

Both types of tops are faced with a myriad of potential contamination sources, including acid rain, heat, ultraviolet rays, smog, tree sap, bird droppings, salt, tar, dirt, grease, grit, and mold. A consistent finding in my research on care of convertible tops is the importance of regular and proper cleaning, which helps to remove the contaminants that can damage the material, as well as regular application of an appropriate protectant, which helps to prevent the contaminants from reaching the material in the first place.

So what Should We Do?

First, it's important, as always, to use the right chemical for the surface of concern. We don't usually use degreaser on the vehicle's paint and we don't use wax to protect leather seats. By the same token, we should use appropriate cleaning and protecting products for the material that makes up the convertible top.

Why is this so important? Automobile manufacturers are receiving warranty claims from owners of convertibles that have disintegrated prematurely. Often this can be attributed to an unwitting car care professional or vehicle owner who uses strong solvents or other harsh cleaners on a regular basis to keep the convertible material clean. Unfortunately, such harsh cleanings tend to break down the material and the stitching that holds the swaths of material together.

I have personally heard of detailers using a bathroom cleaner commonly employed for removing mold stains from tile grout. Unfortunately, the main ingredient in this cleaner is bleach, which is highly corrosive in nature, especially when used in the concentrations in which it is typically sold over-the-counter. Cloth stitching on a convertible top is not nearly as durable as grout and will break down quickly when exposed repeatedly to products containing strong concentrations of bleach.

The fact of the matter is, use of anything other than cleaners designed specifically for convertible tops can cause damage to the material. Even with a milder multi-purpose cleaner, such damage might be minimal, but the concern is the cumulative effect of repeated cleanings with inappropriate chemicals that might lead to the breakdown of the material or the stitching.

So what do we use? To find answers to this question, I did some research. First, there is the owner's manual. Most new vehicles with convertible tops contain care instructions that are surprisingly complete. However, most vehicle owners never bother to check out these instructions. Moreover, older owner's manuals were written before the development of a new set of chemicals for the maintenance of convertible tops and thus offer information that contradicts that provided by newer manuals. I also checked out the information and recommendations of some of the leading manufacturers of the materials that make up the convertible tops.

I found out that there are, indeed, products designed specifically for the cleaning of convertible tops and similar materials like truck tonneau covers. Companies like The Haartz Corporation, which makes the material for virtually all American and European convertible tops, and Roll-N-Lock, a manufacturer of retractable truck bed tonneau covers, exclusively recommend using RAGGTOPP Convertible Top Care Products from Wolfsteins Pro Series for their products.

Additionally, convertible tops need protection just like the paint, leather, or carpeting needs. On fabric tops, it is recommend to use a chemical with a fluorocarbon repelling system. Such a chemical will bond with the fabric and repel liquid and dirt while at the same time providing ultraviolet protection. Look for products that do not contain silicone, Freon, or chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).

On vinyl tops, a fluorocarbon repelling chemical is not necessary simply because vinyl is not porous. Instead, use an approved product that protects and beautifies the top. Such a product should have ultraviolet blockers that help reduce the cumulative effect of sunlight exposure. It will also enhance the beauty of the top with a dressing effect. However, it is important to not use products that contain silicone, petroleum solvents, or CFCs, all of which can have a negative impact on the vinyl material. RAGGTOPP Vinyl Top Protectant contains no silicone and can be used on all exterior and interior vinyl without streaking.

Additionally, make sure that the products you are using to clean and protect the convertible top are not harmful to paint, glass, chrome or plastic windows. That way, you don't have to worry about overspray or run-off onto the other parts of the vehicle as you proceed with the treatment process described above.

Once you've got the right chemicals for cleaning and protecting convertible tops, the process is quite simple.

Initial Treatment: New Vehicle

Before even getting the vehicle wet, vacuum the convertible top using an upholstery brush to pick up any loose dirt or dust. Next, wet down the top thoroughly and mist it evenly with RAGGTOP ® Fabric/Vinyl Cleaner approved by the manufacturer. If necessary, the cleaner can be lightly agitated using a soft nylon brush.

Rinse the top thoroughly and until all foam from the cleaner dissipates. Allow the top to dry completely. This can be accomplished by simply parking the vehicle in direct sunlight. If this is not possible, you may use forced air from a hair dryer or air mover to assist in speeding up the drying process.

Once the top is thoroughly dry, apply the appropriate RAGGTOPP Fabric Protectant (Fabric or Vinyl) evenly across the entire exposed fabric surface in three light coats, allowing the product to dry 10 minutes or so between coats.

This process will take no more than an hour and can take quite a bit less than an hour depending on drying times.

Reconditioning Treatment: Used Vehicle

If the convertible top is on an older vehicle or has not been appropriately cared for, the top will need to be rejuvenated before adding protection. Simply put, the longer the top has gone without appropriate maintenance, the more attention it will need.

The cleaning process is best done in the shade to assure that the cleaner does not dry out before you have a chance to rinse it off. On a fabric top, start by thoroughly vacuuming the top with an upholstery brush. Then thoroughly wet down the top. Spray it with RAGGTOPP Convertible Top Cleaner. If the top is heavily soiled, you may want to let the cleaner dwell for up to 15 minutes, but make sure it doesn't dry out. Then scrub it gently but thoroughly with a soft nylon brush, using a circular or back-and-forth crisscross motion. Rinse the top thoroughly and until all foam from the cleaner dissipates.

Multiple cleanings using the process above may be necessary to remove as much of the accumulated soil as possible, especially for tops that are several years old. The best way to make sure the top is completely clean before applying protectant is to allow it to dry and visually inspect.

A special case is mold, which grows on the dirt and other foreign material that lingers on the top when it is not regularly cleaned. Detailers who are not familiar with the proper care of convertibles often resort to using strong de-molding cleaners that can damage the top and other vehicle surfaces. In the case of stubborn stains such as mold, special procedures may be necessary.

After all of the cleaning is done, allow the top to dry completely, again by parking the vehicle in direct sunlight or using a hair dryer or air mover. Once the top is thoroughly dry, apply an appropriate protectant evenly across the entire exposed fabric surface. It may be necessary to use up to two times the number of coats recommended for a new top. It's better to apply light coats, allowing ten minutes or so of sun-drying time between coats. This entire process may take from one to two hours, depending on drying times.

Post-Treatment Regular Maintenance

Once the initial treatment is complete, it's important to follow-up with regular re-treatment to keep the convertible top looking great and protected for years to come. Vinyl tops should be properly cleaned and re-treated every four to six weeks for maximum protection. Likewise, fabric tops should be cleaned and retreated every three to six months. Re-treatment on both tops can be accomplished by using the procedures outlined in the "Reconditioning Treatment" section above.

Between formal treatments, standard carwashing is acceptable and advisable. Although most automatic carwashes are safe for convertible tops, those using barrel brushes should be avoided. Nonetheless, hand-washing will ensure the least amount of cumulative wear-and-tear on the convertible top.

Prentice St. Clair offers consulting for the automotive detailing and reconditioning industry. He is recognized as one of the industry's leading experts, having authored several training videos, created training programs, and provided educational sessions for the International and Western Carwash Associations. He continues to provide regular contributions to the industry's trade magazines and offers consulting to automotive detailing operations big and small.

 

[AZDarkSol]

Like I said 303 works for me...no fade..no leaks..no stains...looks like new.. going on five Phoenix summers..there I kept it brief...:crazy:

 

[rob the elder]

brevity is the soul of wit....

but no substitute for science :thumbs:

 

[LowLife1]

I kind of wonder if all vendors buy their products from the same vendor and then they're just labeled with the appropriate company label. Then it comes down to who's marketing you fall for. Reminds of local store brands vs national brands when we all know that stores just contract with the national brands to produce the same product.

 

[rob the elder]

Good question. I found it interesting that Haartz apparently makes almost all the fabric for tops in the US

 

[Bluesulfur]

Nah, top is not dirty at all just a repelent will do. Since i got the car always took care if the top and body as well. Just looking for something that repels water and doesnt go inside the fabric

 

[rob the elder]

I got this response from Haartz

Hi Rob,

Thanks for contacting The Haartz Corporation.

In reply to your inquiry about the RaggTopp Cleaner and Protectant system, Haartz continuously studies the market and internally evaluates various products for performance. The below bullet points are a overview.

• Comparison testing according to proprietary internal Haartz soiling/cleaning methodology has shown Raggtopp to be among the best cleaners on the market.
• RaggTopp protectant has been shown to offer comparable spray rating performance when tested according to AATCC Test Method #22.
o The above has been achieved without the use of silicone in the protectant.
• The formulations of the RaggTopp cleaner and protectant have been shown to have no negative effects upon the long-term durability of the topcover. Both avoid the use of organic solvents that can damage the fabrics and combining layers between.
• RaggTopp cleaner & protectant have also been shown to have no negative effect upon materials adjacent to the convertible top (plastic/glass window, paint, etc.)

I hope that you find this information of value.


Best Regards,
Douglas Haartz
THE HAARTZ CORPORATION

 

[rob the elder]

AATCC Test Method #22

AATCC Test Method 22-2010
Water Repellency: Spray Test

Developed in 1941 by AATCC Committee RA63

1. Purpose and Scope

1.1 This test method is applicable to any textile fabric, which may or may not have been given a water-repellent finish. It measures the resistance of fabrics to wetting by water. It is especially suitable for measuring the water-repellent efficacy of finishes applied to fabrics.

2. Principle

2.1 Water sprayed against the taut surface of a test specimen under controlled conditions produces a wetted pattern whose size depends on the relative repellency of the fabric. Evaluation is accomplished by comparing the wetted pattern with pictures on a standard chart

 

[rob the elder]

PDF of AATCC Test Method #22

for your viewing pleasure

AATCC Test Method 22-2005.pdf_°Ù¶ÈÎÄ¿â

PURPOSE AND SCOPE:
To measure resistance of fabrics (or garments) to wetting by water. Applicable to any textile fabric, which may or may not have been given a water resistant or water-repellent finish. This test method is not intended for use in predicting the probably rain penetration resistance of fabrics, since it does not measure rain or water penetration.
PRINCIPLE:
Water sprayed against the taut surface of specimen under controlled conditions produces a wetter pattern whose size depends on the relative repellency of the fabric. Evaluation is accomplished by comparing the wetted pattern with pictures on a standard chart.
REFERENCE:
AATCC Test Method 22-2001, Water Repellency: Spray Test.
APPARATUS:
4.1 AATCC Spray Tester, see 8.1
4.2 Standard Spray Test Rating Chart, see 8.1
4.3 Beaker
4.4 Distilled Water
4.5 Test specimen 18 cm x 18 cm (7 x 7 in.) conditioned at 65 +/- 2% RH and 21° +/- 1C (70° +/- 2F) for minimum of 4 hours before testing.
PROCEDURE:
5.1 Fasten test specimen securely in the 15.2 cm (6 in.) metal hoop so that it is wrinkle free. Place hoop on tested stand in position so that center of spray pattern coincides with center of the hoop. With ribbed fabrics, hoop should be placed on stand so that ribs are diagonal to flow of water running off fabric specimen.
5.2 Pour 250 ml of distilled water at 27° +/- 1C (80° +/- 2F) into funnel of tester. Allow to spray onto Test specimen. This will take approximately 25-30 seconds. After completion of spraying period, Hoop is tapped smartly against a solid object with fabric facing object. Rotate 180 degrees and Tap once more on the point previously held. This will result in removal of excess water form the Surface of the specimen being tested.
5.3 Wet or spotted pattern is compared with Standard Spray Test Rating Chart and assigned a rating corresponding to the nearest standard in the rating chart.


REPORT:
Report the rating number corresponding to Standard Spray Test Rating Chart as follows:

Rating Evaluation
100 No sticking or wetting of upper surface
90 Slight random sticking or wetting of upper surface
80 Wetting of upper surface at spray points
70 Partial wetting of whole of upper surface
50 Complete wetting of whole of upper surface
0 Complete wetting of whole upper and lower surfaces

NOTE:
7.1 The AATCC Spray Tester Unit consisting of hoop, nozzle, funnel, stand and Spray Test Rating Chart is available from AATCC,

 

[rob the elder]

an interesting technical post on the 303 site.

303 Products, Inc.: High Tech Fabric Guard Application Manual

Solvent Carrier:
For a fabric protector product to work properly (fully cure) during application in the field, a solvent carrier must be used. (Aqueous formulations are used in the mill. Air-drying is not adequate to cure aqueous fluoropolymer products. For more information on this, see 303's website. Scroll down to: "Fluoropolymer Fabric Protector Products ... Aqueous VS. Solvent Based". 303 Products, Inc.: High Tech Fabric Guard )



Odor: 303 High Tech Fabric Guard utilizes "Odorless Mineral Spirits (OMS)" as a carrier. OMS is an innocuous solvent (as solvents go) that, in spite of its name, has a noticeable "characteristic odor" (similar to paint thinner). Solvent carriers serve two purposes: a) "Wetter" than water, they do a better job of carrying the active polymer into a fabric and b) Solvents evaporate out in such a way as to cause full "curing" of the active agent - the fluoropolymer.

After drying:
A quality fluoropolymer fabric protector product will leave the treated material looking and feeling exactly like the cleaned fabric prior to treating. And it will NOT affect breathability*. Regarding not changing a fabric's appearance, there is an exception (isn't there always?). Some users (typically we North American males) figure "if a little is good, more is better" and sometimes DRAMATICALLY over-apply. A dramatic over-application can leave an inconsistent whitish blush on some colors, as if someone had dusted here and there with talcum powder. This is the normally invisible active polymer showing up. The correction: Re-clean the fabric, retreat.


Longevity: One maximizes longevity with proper preparation and application of a quality fabric protector product. The main degradant to any fluoropolymer fabric protector finish is FRICTION. This is true with respect to both the original factory finish (on a marine canvas or fabric convertible top) and a retreatment finish. That friction is the main degradant to the fluoropolymer finish is easy to observe in the field.

The first place a Sunbrella® bimini "wets out" is the area that rests on the supporting aluminum tubing. Anyone who has been around boating for a time would have noted this. Run your new convertible (fabric top) through the automatic car wash a few times and the repellency is gone. Heavy use on one end cushion and arm of the couch in my home requires me to clean and retreat those areas about once a year, while the back of the couch still "beads" water after 5 years.

UV Screening:
Typically fabric protector products do not provide UV screening, but there are those out there that do. For more on this, individuals who have access to Consumer Reports should look up the June 1997 issue, the article beginning on page 19.

 

[JimVonBaden]

• RaggTopp cleaner & protectant have also been shown to have no negative effect upon materials adjacent to the convertible top (plastic/glass window, paint, etc.)

So you can apply the RaggTopp Protectant without covering the glass, paint and rubber components of your car and not have issues with overspray removal?

Jim

 

[rob the elder]

I have done so on both of my cars, one with the tan top and one black. I do it every 6 months or so and have done so for the past 3 years with no signs of impact on the non fabric surfaces.

Or stated simply

Yes.