[Rixfix]

It depends on what you find. A bad connector pin is always a possibility, so visually inspect for those.

• For Terminal 2 (Low Reference):
  • High resistance is either a broken wire or a bad ECM.
    • Connection at ECM is X1-Pin46
• For Terminal 1 (5V Reference):
  • Low voltage is a short to ground, an open connection, or a bad ECM
    • Connection at ECM is X1-Pin45
  • High voltage is a short to B+ or a bad ECM
• For Terminal 3 (Signal):
  • Low voltage is a short to ground, an open connection, or a bad ECM
    • Connection at ECM is X1-Pin 35
  • High voltage is a short to B+ or a bad ECM

If you read an open connection you can unplug the ECM and check continuity between the two ends of the wire. There are no intermediate connections, and the wire is the same color at both ends.

Wow- I'm learning lots-normally I'd be bugging my buddy Chris who is an electrician maintenance guy-he help wire my 61 Buick Invicta coupe when we transplanted a 5.3 vortec in her 10 years ago. Heres the readouts I have, tan was zero on ohms, 7.1 volts on each of yellow and grey. So higher voltage means a short to B+ or bad ecm?
Anything else that you can see from my voltmeter? Its a cheap one I know. I'm not even sure I have it on the right settings-its DC power.

 

[kgschlosser]

we want to check resistance. That's the symbol in the gray area on the left side of the dial. The bottom one.

Terminal 2, set the meter to resistance and touch one of the test leads to ground and the other to the pin. Let me know what the resistance is.

Next 2 tests you need to have KOEO (Key On Engine Off)

Terminal 1 is the 5V. Change the meter to DC volts and move the test lead that is on terminal 2 over to terminal 1. Tell me what the voltage is.

Continuity is the setting above the resistance.

terminal 3 we can test for both continuity and also voltage. Tell me what both of those readings are.

 

[Rixfix]

we want to check resistance. That's the symbol in the gray area on the left side of the dial. The bottom one.

Terminal 2, set the meter to resistance and touch one of the test leads to ground and the other to the pin. Let me know what the resistance is.

Next 2 tests you need to have KOEO (Key On Engine Off)

Terminal 1 is the 5V. Change the meter to DC volts and move the test lead that is on terminal 2 over to terminal 1. Tell me what the voltage is.

Continuity is the setting above the resistance.

terminal 3 we can test for both continuity and also voltage. Tell me what both of those readings are.

Will do-I'm done in my shop for the day-just had dinner-I'll try tomorrow am. Time to relax .
I get confused sometimes where to set the dial, I know the OHM symbol from high school shop days, but i use a multimeter maybe 2-3 times a year. Practise Practise.
I thought I had my voltage at DC in these pics-7.13 on both wires-just not sure if it should be at the 20 mark (Thats what I use for checking voltage on car battery)-and i got a zero reading on the ohm setting. These arent the right settings?

 

[JohnWR]

Wow- I'm learning lots-normally I'd be bugging my buddy Chris who is an electrician maintenance guy-he help wire my 61 Buick Invicta coupe when we transplanted a 5.3 vortec in her 10 years ago. Heres the readouts I have, tan was zero on ohms, 7.1 volts on each of yellow and grey. So higher voltage means a short to B+ or bad ecm?
Anything else that you can see from my voltmeter? Its a cheap one I know. I'm not even sure I have it on the right settings-its DC power.

I want to stress that I have not made the specific measurements you have made, so everything here is based on my reading of the service manual.

The 7.1 V on the Gray and Yellow suggest that the ECM is the problem. Setting the meter to 20 DC Volts is correct, and 7.1 exceeds the limit set by the manual.

The 0.0 Ohms to ground on the Tan wire is good. I would set the meter to 20 Ohms for this instead of 20M Ohms (20 Million Ohms) but I do not think the reading will change in this case.

The next check I would make would be to unplug the ECM, then power the car (but don't try to start it) and re-check the voltage to ground on the Gray and Yellow wires. I expect that you will read zero Volts, but it is worth checking to eliminate the possibility of a short to voltage in one of the wires. With the ECM unplugged you should read infinite ohms on the Tan wire.

 

[Rixfix]

I want to stress that I have not made the specific measurements you have made, so everything here is based on my reading of the service manual.

The 7.1 V on the Gray and Yellow suggest that the ECM is the problem. Setting the meter to 20 DC Volts is correct, and 7.1 exceeds the limit set by the manual.

The 0.0 Ohms to ground on the Tan wire is good. I would set the meter to 20 Ohms for this instead of 20M Ohms (20 Million Ohms) but I do not think the reading will change in this case.

The next check I would make would be to unplug the ECM, then power the car (but don't try to start it) and re-check the voltage to ground on the Gray and Yellow wires. I expect that you will read zero Volts, but it is worth checking to eliminate the possibility of a short to voltage in one of the wires. With the ECM unplugged you should read infinite ohms on the Tan wire.

Thanks. I guess I’ll to locate the ecm with the manual I downloaded!

 

[JohnWR]

Thanks. I guess I’ll to locate the ecm with the manual I downloaded!

Thanks. I guess I’ll to locate the ecm with the manual I downloaded!

Open the hood and look straight down between the wheel well and the base of the windshield. You will see the filler neck for the windshield washer fluid. and right next to it is a rectangular module about the size of a paperback book standing on edge. That is the ECM.

The manual stresses the possibility of electrostatic damage to the ECM, and advises to disconnect the negative battery cable before unplugging the connectors, as well as not touching the pins on the ECM.

 

[kgschlosser]

This is what I have for the crank sensor as far as DTC's go. So for P0335 There is a circuit check and a rationality check. The circuit check runs as soon as you put the key in and turn it to on. If there is a problem the check engine light would be lit immediately after starting. It would not pop up after some time. I do not think that you have any kind of a shorted circuit because of that behavior. If you read the criteria for code column you can see it says the condition must exist for 4 seconds continuous or a total of 50 seconds if it is a problem that is not constant. So if you car is having an issue and the DTC doesn't light up within 4 seconds of starting the car it is not going to be a shorted condition.... If it takes a minute or 2 for the condition to happen I am going to lean towards a dirty signal the ECM is receiving. That dirty signal can be caused by a bad sensor (which can happen right out of the box) or corrosion/bad connection on the terminal pins either at the ECM or the sensor.

turn the key on and clear the codes with the code scanner. Then start the car and see how long it takes before the check engine lights up. Actually time in seconds how long it takes. It is OK to increase the RPM on the engine, in fact I encourage you to do so.

I really do not think your issue is a shorted wire or even a bad ECM. If you open the hood and look at the wiper cowl on the driver side near the driver side wiper arm attachment, you will see a pretty large hole in the cowl near the seal. I am willing to bet you that hole is clogged with tree dirt and when it rains the water ends up not draining through that hole. It ends up pouring right onto the ECM and clips. This is not uncommon to have happen. The clips are water resistant, they are not designed to keep water out if in a submerging type condition. While the ECM is water tight the pins in the clips are not.

Component/System	Fault Code	Monitor Strategy Description	Primary Malfunction Signal and Criteria	Threshold Value	Specific Units	Secondary Parameters	Enable Condition	Enable Value	Units	Time Required	Frequency of Checks	Criteria for Code	MIL Illuminatioon
Crankshaft Position Sensor	P0335	circuit continuity	no engine signal but phase signals available	0	RPM	camshaft revolutions detected	>	12	counts	approx 5 sec	0.01 sec continuous	4 sec continuous or 50 sec cumulative	immediate
		rationality check	reference gap missing ( sensor signal but no reference ) >	6	GAPS	camshaft revolutions detected	>	12	counts	approx 5 sec	0.01 sec continuous	4 sec continuous or 50 sec cumulative	immediate
	P0336	rationality check	unexpected re-synchronization ( loss of reference mark ) >	2600	count	camshaft revolutions detected	>	12	counts	approx 5 sec	0.01 sec continuous	4 sec continuous or 50 sec cumulative	immediate
		rationality check	intermittent loss of engine speed signal >	28	count	camshaft revolutions detected	>	12	counts	approx 5 sec	0.01 sec continuous	4 sec continuous or 50 sec cumulative	immediate
	P0338	rationality check	difference in counted teeth between reference gap position events >	250	crankshaft teeth	camshaft revolutions detected	>	12	counts	approx 2 sec	1 per rev continuous	4 sec continuous or 50 sec cumulative	immediate

 

[Rixfix]

Open the hood and look straight down between the wheel well and the base of the windshield. You will see the filler neck for the windshield washer fluid. and right next to it is a rectangular module about the size of a paperback book standing on edge. That is the ECM.

The manual stresses the possibility of electrostatic damage to the ECM, and advises to disconnect the negative battery cable before unplugging the connectors, as well as not touching the pins on the ECM.

Good moring-Thanks for the tip-I'll disconnect battery-and check on the ECM-I'll let you know what I find-We have a gorgeous weekend up here in Guelph Ontario Canad-hitting the 80F degee mark finally-perfect summer cruising weather...I hope I can her running.

 

[JohnWR]

Good moring-Thanks for the tip-I'll disconnect battery-and check on the ECM-I'll let you know what I find-We have a gorgeous weekend up here in Guelph Ontario Canad-hitting the 80F degee mark finally-perfect summer cruising weather...I hope I can her running. View attachment 139184

You're welcome. Good luck with it.

 

[Rixfix]

You're welcome. Good luck with it.

Hi John:

I did my best-I may have the energy tomorrow for one more shot-maybe the sensor is bad-maybe the new replacement was bad-or wait for a rainy day-and just enjoy the nice weather with my backup 63 Lemans lol
I checked ECM-connected and reconnected a few times. It looked clean and dry-no corrosion, etc. Checked for visible breaks in wiring. Cleaned connector for Crankshaft sensor with electronic cleaner-got a new voltage of 4.2 volts (instead of 7.1 on both wires)-thought that might be better. I even tried it with the old crankshaft sensor-it did run with old sensor-it still had the code. So...no luck today-it just cranks on. No start. I tried to save a few hundred bucks-I'll phone my friends garage Tuesday and see if they can help possiblly with a re-learn if thats what it needs.
Yes a cruise with the old Lemans will help. Its a 4 cyl too (half a 389), but with the low compression 1-barrel carb-it can only muster 120hp-a fry car from the Solstice GXP rocket engine
Thanks to all who helped.

 

[kgschlosser]

are you clearing the code with your scan tool? The code won't go away on it's own, or if it does it will take a while before it does. It's not an immediate thing. You need to reset the codes using your scan tool and see if it comes back.

The 4.2 volts is much better. I am betting you have some **** on some of the terminal pins at the ECM. Use the scan tool and clear the codes and then start it up. time how long it takes for the engine light to come on. report back with that time. Easy to do and you don't have to take anything apart to do it.

 

[kgschlosser]

The car has to start in order to do the relearn of the CKP. so we need to get the car running for ya if it's not.

 

[JohnWR]

Hi John:

I did my best-I may have the energy tomorrow for one more shot-maybe the sensor is bad-maybe the new replacement was bad-or wait for a rainy day-and just enjoy the nice weather with my backup 63 Lemans lol
I checked ECM-connected and reconnected a few times. It looked clean and dry-no corrosion, etc. Checked for visible breaks in wiring. Cleaned connector for Crankshaft sensor with electronic cleaner-got a new voltage of 4.2 volts (instead of 7.1 on both wires)-thought that might be better. I even tried it with the old crankshaft sensor-it did run with old sensor-it still had the code. So...no luck today-it just cranks on. No start. I tried to save a few hundred bucks-I'll phone my friends garage Tuesday and see if they can help possiblly with a re-learn if thats what it needs.
Yes a cruise with the old Lemans will help. Its a 4 cyl too (half a 389), but with the low compression 1-barrel carb-it can only muster 120hp-a fry car from the Solstice GXP rocket engine
Thanks to all who helped.

The thing with blaming the sensor is that you are getting "bad" voltage readings when the sensor isn't connected to anything. Without really doing anything that should make a difference your readings of 7.1 and 4.2 are both out of the range specified, and in opposite directions. It would be interesting to see the voltage readings after everything has sat and any contact cleaner has evaporated. It would also be interesting to see readings while the wires and connectors are being moved around (without disconnecting the ECM) to see if anything changes with position.

As far as sensor calibration, I haven't seen a procedure for it, and it doesn't really make sense to have one. The sensor reads the teeth on a reluctor wheel (think gear) that is part of the crankshaft. The wheel has 58 teeth spaced 6 degrees apart and there is a two-tooth gap for a reference position. Each time a tooth goes past the sensor a pulse is provided to the ECM so that it can calculate crank speed, and by counting teeth after the gap it can also determine crankshaft position relative to top dead center. Think of it as the timing marks used to set a distributor. The sensor just reads the teeth and creates a pulse. It doesn't actually have any position information (or anything else), so how one would be different from another and require calibration is difficult to understand.

I wish we could be of more tangible help, but free advice is usually worth every penny you pay for it.

 

[kgschlosser]

The reason why a sensor might need to be calibrated is because of the signal voltage. The ECM already knows what the pulses are supposed to be. that is not why the sensor gets learned to the vehicle. What the ECM is actually learning is what the ON and OFF voltages are when the pulses occur. and also the switching time of the sensor This is where sensors will differ and if there is enough of a difference it can cause issues when the sensor is being read. The ECM allows for an error margin or deviation from the on and off pulses but if a sensor is outside of that range then a DTC gets set. Not all sensors are made equally as we all know. Cheaper components and variations in the manufacturing process can easily place a sensor outside of that acceptable error amount. This is when the ECM would need to relearn the sensor.

 

[JohnWR]

The reason why a sensor might need to be calibrated is because of the signal voltage. The ECM already knows what the pulses are supposed to be. that is not why the sensor gets learned to the vehicle. What the ECM is actually learning is what the ON and OFF voltages are when the pulses occur. and also the switching time of the sensor This is where sensors will differ and if there is enough of a difference it can cause issues when the sensor is being read. The ECM allows for an error margin or deviation from the on and off pulses but if a sensor is outside of that range then a DTC gets set. Not all sensors are made equally as we all know. Cheaper components and variations in the manufacturing process can easily place a sensor outside of that acceptable error amount. This is when the ECM would need to relearn the sensor.

Okay. I still haven't been able to find a calibration routine though. Can you identify where it is?

 

[kgschlosser]

It's in the ECM programming. Look under ECM replacement and it will tell you about how to learn the CKP sensor.

Doing a relearn is not always a necessity when replacing the sensor and that is why it is not mentioned. The service manual is written with the idea that all parts are going to be OE parts and not aftermarket parts. Using an OE part it might be a 1 in a million possibility of needing to do a relearn. Where as with an aftermarket sensor, who knows...

 

[JohnWR]

It's in the ECM programming. Look under ECM replacement and it will tell you about how to learn the CKP sensor.

Doing a relearn is not always a necessity when replacing the sensor and that is why it is not mentioned. The service manual is written with the idea that all parts are going to be OE parts and not aftermarket parts. Using an OE part it might be a 1 in a million possibility of needing to do a relearn. Where as with an aftermarket sensor, who knows...

My manual states that the CKP Relearn is only applicable to the 2.4, and will trigger a P0315 if it is not done. Not doing it, or doing it incorrectly can also apparently trigger a P0300.

In any case, it doesn't appear to be anything that @Rixfix needs to worry about with his GXP.

 

[Rixfix]

I removed my intake manifold to get to mine.
I.e. from the top. Even then it was a little hard to get to with a cranky back but from the bottom seems the hard way…

Hey-some positive news today on solstice Crankshaft sensor issue ( had to do some. repairs on my 63 Lemans and take break from Solstice)-
So, after removing intake again-tested the connector and had 5v on yellow wire-but nothing on grey, but checking the grey wire just BEFORE the connector-we had 5V on both!!! Looks like I need new connector? Tried to see if we coupld open upthe connector (I'm guessing the grey wire got seperated within connector? New connector?

 

[HHGadget]

Hey-some positive news today on solstice Crankshaft sensor issue ( had to do some. repairs on my 63 Lemans and take break from Solstice)-
So, after removing intake again-tested the connector and had 5v on yellow wire-but nothing on grey, but checking the grey wire just BEFORE the connector-we had 5V on both!!! Looks like I need new connector? Tried to see if we coupld open upthe connector (I'm guessing the grey wire got seperated within connector? New connector?

Man, that is a good catch!

 

[Rixfix]

Thanks-so splice in new connector I guess.